Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

news.ycombinator.com

71–80 of 81 posts

Re: Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

#71
post #64

(co-founded a commercial startup based on an open source project, invest into a lot of open source/commercial businesses) Open sourcing as a strategy works when there is a lot of developer interest and (usually) a developer is the beneficiary of the software (that doesn't mean the developer is the end user, but take WordPress, even if it's used by a lot of marketers for websites, it is developers who are the ones usi…

Hey, thanks for chipping in! Let me try to answer these questions.

The platform for us is almost as much a developer-targeted product as it's a business-targeted product. It gives a developer a relatively easy but quite flexible way of building business apps of all kinds, and modular, so it can be reused later. And the more one builds on it, the more incentive they have for keeping on the platform and the larger potential costs of migration. We also offer modules for free to build upon.

The CRM/ERP consultancies usually have cuts from the license fees of the SaaS products they develop on (we are currently no exception). What we want to offer instead is for them to effectively collect the SaaS fees themselves if they host, easily offer "cheap" on-prem installations and give assurance both to them and their clients about the vendor lock-in issues. This may bring more and more development companies, which grows the amount of integrations and solutions on the market, which creates a loop. Finally, the end businesses don't pick CRMs; they pick a consultant who picks a CRM for them.

We still see enough ways to monetize the product if it takes off this way. The question is whether our reasoning holds true.

Re: Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't most YC open-core products AGPL basically not really open source unless you pay them for it?

AGPL is open source, the issue is, think of the GPL, and how you have to share code if you release a binary. The AGPL goes a step further, so if you try to run a SaaS with your own custom code on top of the existing codebase, it says you MUST share your code. Hence, you would want to pay for the right to keep your own modifications.

isn't that basically a non-compete? we can take other peoples code to build an AGPL project but you can't take our code to become a competitor (this would fail the FOSS definition)

Re: Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the thoughts! Your thoughts on the developers vs business decision-makers, in particular, hit the spot. When we started, we figured that customizing business software by ourselves was something we'd never be able to scale properly. So, instead, we wanted to create a community of developers and partners who know their target audience better than we do. This way, we focus on the core platform and search for…

>When we started, we figured that customizing business software by ourselves was something we'd never be able to scale properly This is the meaning of the badly put advice "do things that don't scale". Regarding your vision of offloading the work to partners, my experience is that more time can be put trying to convince prospective partners than doing the work yourself if you are not careful. My feeling is that you a…

> Regarding your vision of offloading the work to partners, my experience is that more time can be put trying to convince prospective partners than doing the work yourself if you are not careful.

That's a good way to put it. We also have an opposite fear: that building and customizing for the end clients requires expertise and focus on a particular market. This way we quickly become "just another CRM consultancy" which happens to have their own in-house product, and limits their growth to the (relatively) narrow market they are good at. Competing for new niches with the platforms that focus on building the partner networks becomes hard, considering all the ecosystem that these platforms develop around them. We have experience at running a successful MS Dynamics consultancy like that before, but this was its limit for us.

Whether our understanding on how to balance these two extremes is adequate is a good question that we keep pondering on. So thanks for the input!

Re: Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

#74
Wow, lots of stuff to unpack here, some of it interesting, most of it noise and some downright wrong, especially around the licensing. My suggestion is to hire an open source strategy consultant for a few weeks (not me) to help you sort through it all. If you want some recommendations reach out at: linkedin.com/in/opensourcestrategy

Re: Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

#75
Wow, lots of stuff to unpack here, some of it interesting and helpful, most of it noise, and some downright wrong, especially around the licensing. My suggestion is to hire an open source strategy consultant for a few weeks (not me) to help you sort through it all. If you want some recommendations reach out at: linkedin.com/in/opensourcestrategy

Re: Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

#76
I don't have any good answers for you re building a community as usually people will only come if there's money. So if you could create some kind of marketplace where customers could ask for things to be built and then devs could build and make some money from it then that might work. But starting a two-sided marketplace is hard ... or so they say.

But I mainly wanted to comment and say I started learning F# recently getting a bit into Elmish and think F# is a pragmatic language and would love to learn more but there is a lack of large F# codebases to learn from. So would be interested in taking a peek at how one would construct a large F# codebase targeting the enterprise if this does ever get released.

Re: Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AGPL is open source, the issue is, think of the GPL, and how you have to share code if you release a binary. The AGPL goes a step further, so if you try to run a SaaS with your own custom code on top of the existing codebase, it says you MUST share your code. Hence, you would want to pay for the right to keep your own modifications.

isn't that basically a non-compete? we can take other peoples code to build an AGPL project but you can't take our code to become a competitor (this would fail the FOSS definition)

How is it a non-compete? You can take our code, just that if you make any changes, you must share them back to the original codebase.

Re: Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

#78

Hey, One good case study is Maybe Finance. It was a dead project. They open sourced it. And it went viral. And they raised $1.5m within another few weeks. The virality was on GitHub stars and Twitter. I run a channel about open source that may give you ideas of what other COSS projects are doing: https://youtube.com/elie2222 My COSS is called Inbox Zero: https://getinboxzero.com .

I heard of Maybe, I invested in them as well. I'm actually looking to do something similar as a COSS, same niche as well but not exactly, more of a budgeting tool like YNAB rather than a full blown investment tracking tool, all open source. Any tips you have for that and for COSS in general?

Re: Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the thoughts! Your thoughts on the developers vs business decision-makers, in particular, hit the spot. When we started, we figured that customizing business software by ourselves was something we'd never be able to scale properly. So, instead, we wanted to create a community of developers and partners who know their target audience better than we do. This way, we focus on the core platform and search for…

>When we started, we figured that customizing business software by ourselves was something we'd never be able to scale properly This is the meaning of the badly put advice "do things that don't scale". Regarding your vision of offloading the work to partners, my experience is that more time can be put trying to convince prospective partners than doing the work yourself if you are not careful. My feeling is that you a…

> can be put trying to convince prospective partners

This is so true. Early on, I tried to sell our product through a system integrator channel. I hoped they would "do the sales for us." The systems integrator was super focused on sales, they talked to our target customer all the time, and they seemed super excited to sell our product.

But, it was a total flop. They didn't really seem to understand our product, and they would say anything to close a deal. Sometimes we did a lot of work, then got cut from the deal late in the game. More often, we ended up in the deal, but then had to deal with promises to the customer that didn't make any sense. It was like "the integrator said it would do what?"

I agree that you have to be really careful about selling through partners. Interestingly, the integrator channel was primarily for another, much larger software company. I told the CEO how excited we were to partner with the integrators. He looked at me and said "oh, we wish we could get rid of the integrators, but its too late because they control access to the customers." Luckily, we were small enough that walking away from the integrators worked for us.

If I were you, I would focus on identifying a few verticals where your product works well (say, car dealerships), then try to figure out how to sell to them. What are their concerns? What drives their decisions? How can you contact the right person to pitch your product? etc. If you can build a system around a vertical, you will feel so much better about sales. And once you build a system around one vertical, you can start looking for additional verticals to target.

Re: Ask HN: How can we open-source a 7 year old SaaS codebase and build a community?

#80
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Require an api key that calls the mothership regularly

Which is the first thing the user removes from the code.

Not sure what "users" are you talking about. Most users are not programmers and most programmers are not experienced or skillful enough to alter binaries like that.
Post reply on HN