What We're Working on in Firefox • Hacker News Board

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#111

Post by glenstein » Thu, May 30, 2024, 9:37 PM UTC

neilv wrote: post #61

Prioritization that I'd like to suggest for Firefox, driven by needs of society (from high to low): 1. Representing the public interest wrt Web -- especially fervent respect for privacy in the browser, almost as much emphasis on security, fighting commercial excesses around de jure and defacto standards, and social equity within the scope of what Mozilla does (e.g., software accessibility, encouraging all volunteers)…

>4. Fancy browser features that actually increase uptake and retention.

Yeah, I would say I think these are actually a good thing as long as the cost-benefit ratio is acceptable and it doesn't compromise core efforts (people have asserted this kind of compromise has been happening, but rarely with any coherence or substantiation).

I would consider the example of Opera in its heyday - whether it was Turbo, "widgets", extensions, or Unite, which in my opinion was a triumph of originality and innovation that went unsung. Those are good when done right.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#112

Post by schmidtleonard » Thu, May 30, 2024, 9:40 PM UTC

Teever wrote: post #50

JohnFen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dumbing down of applications, including FF, is incredibly annoying and off-putting. I get it, though. FF probably wants to be friendly and approachable to the average non-techie person. I just wish that it (and other applications) would at least have an "expert mode" that isn't aimed just at the casual user.

The implication of what you're saying is that it somehow isn't friendly and approachable to your average non-techie person, which doesn't make sense because the UI paradigm of browsers hasn't really changed for 20+ years and Firefox has been just fine for technies to switch their parents/grandparents over to for years now. The problem with Firefox isn't the UI, the problem with Firefox is mismanagement by the board t…

> the UI paradigm of browsers hasn't really changed for 20+ years

(Checks calendar) ugh, it really has been 15 years since they ground up the url box + search box into the big mystery meat mash-up that mostly works but is so damn obnoxious when it doesn't.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#113

Post by fabrice_d » Thu, May 30, 2024, 9:40 PM UTC

gsuuon wrote: post #78

Lack of PWA / installable apps is why I switched back to chrome after trying to daily drive firefox for a while. Really wish they'd reconsider the decision to drop it.

Untested, but I think this Firefox fork added support back: https://floorp.app/en

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#114

Post by xchip » Thu, May 30, 2024, 9:40 PM UTC

Not very exciting, to be honest.

I would like certain apps to open always in private browsing.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#115

Post by palata » Thu, May 30, 2024, 9:41 PM UTC

eesmith wrote: post #23

some_furry wrote: post #17

I just hope there's an option to totally disable the AI junk. I'd just like a simple, secure browser that gets the hell out of my way and let's me extend it however I want (i.e., with an adblocker). I don't need or want AI models involved in the process.

I like Firefox's built-in language translation feature. Does that count as "AI" these days?

I don't think it counts as the modern "AI" buzz: it was there before and it is useful.

The modern AI stuff is typically useless crap that was thrown there because... I don't know... FOMO?

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#116

Post by palata » Thu, May 30, 2024, 9:43 PM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #58

Teever wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The implication of what you're saying is that it somehow isn't friendly and approachable to your average non-techie person, which doesn't make sense because the UI paradigm of browsers hasn't really changed for 20+ years and Firefox has been just fine for technies to switch their parents/grandparents over to for years now. The problem with Firefox isn't the UI, the problem with Firefox is mismanagement by the board t…

First time I’ve heard Google being blamed for Mozilla’s self inflicted problems. Google is highly incentivised to make sure Mozilla survives with some reasonable market share. Without Mozilla antitrust enforcement becomes much more likely. That’s why Google pays Mozilla for being the default search engine provider. That’s the main source of revenue for Mozilla. If Mozilla could maintain 10% market share in perpetuity…

> Google is highly incentivised to make sure Mozilla survives with some reasonable market share.

Assuming that "surviving" is good and "reasonable" is... what... 3% and dropping?

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#117

Post by mrinterweb » Thu, May 30, 2024, 9:43 PM UTC

I love that Firefox continues to be been focused on performance. There was a while where FF perf was looking kind of bleak compared to Chrome. These days FF and Chrome have similar performance. FF might have the edge now.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#118

Post by amanzi » Thu, May 30, 2024, 9:44 PM UTC

Mozilla asks people to contribute ideas on "Mozilla Connect", but then chooses to ignore most of the top-rated ideas. To be fair, better tab management is first and third of the list, so they are looking to improve that one. But PWAs is second on the list, and there's no mention of this in their announcement. Bringing back proper PWA support seems to align perfectly with Mozilla's mission, so it blows me away why they aren't actively working on it or talking about it.

The other things mentioned are just features that I would expect to keep improving over time, but are nothing groundbreaking.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#119

Post by dralley » Thu, May 30, 2024, 9:46 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #105

palata wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and then decided to be anti-competitive instead of just letting it win Or precisely because it was not enough to have the better product? Don't tell me you believe that the better product usually wins. Marketing wins.

Firefox was doing fine beating IE on merit once MS was prevented from behaving anti-competitively.

The base of internet users was a lot smaller and more technically-inclined in 2004 than in 2014

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#120

Post by bakugo » Thu, May 30, 2024, 9:48 PM UTC

palata wrote: post #104

pessimizer wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their downfall came when they changed everything that they were doing, and subsequently nuked every reason why someone would prefer firefox other than that they weren't google. They transformed firefox into wonky chrome, even copying superficial UI stuff. And then got very hostile about any criticism of this project, actively destroying all of the goodwill they built up. That alienation of their stubborn, fanatical b…

Not that I disagree with the alienation of their fanbase. I personally use Firefox mostly because it is not Google, certainly not because it is Mozilla (and to be fair I like the Firefox Containers). But I am not convinced most people see it like this. Most of the people I know honestly don't make the difference between Firefox and Chrome: they just use what they know. I think Chrome won those people because Google m…

> But I am not convinced most people see it like this. Most of the people I know honestly don't make the difference between Firefox and Chrome: they just use what they know.

And those people are not Firefox's audience. They don't care about their browser as long as it loads facebook.com, so they're just going to use whatever browser is more popular or pushed harder onto them, which is Chrome. If Firefox positions itself as just a Chrome clone, there's no reason to use it over Chrome.

If Firefox wants to survive, it needs to position itself as a niche alternative for people who actually have preferences for what their browser is like, and do not like Chrome. Of course, it won't ever be as popular as Chrome, but that battle was lost a long time ago.