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US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

arstechnica.com

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Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#21

Post by zxcvb »

forza wrote: post #16
ars wrote: post #5

arstechnica is taking the NY Times article and extrapolating too much. Confirmed? No it's not. It was suspected before, and it still is. And lost control would imply they could not control what it did to the target, which is incorrect. It did escape to the wild, but that's not really loosing control when it was designed to do nothing harmful on non target machines. Better to read the original, and the discussion on i…

It got discovered, I would call that loosing control.

You're wrong. You can still be in control of a botnet (for example) even if it gets discovered and you can't spell 'losing'.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#22

Post by zxcvb »

jgrahamc wrote: post #12

It's amusing that they 'lost control' of it because a simple bit of code along the lines of "if www.google.com resolves then shutdown" would be effective at detecting whether it was on the Internet or not.

What if google.com isn't resolvable from the host? The quality of person on HN has gone down hill.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#23

Post by Cacti »

xaa wrote: post #6
Fizzadar wrote: post #4

This feels similar to the Megaupload case; America desperately throwing its weight around outside it's borders, with a total disregard for the law. And, just like the Megaupload case, they have fucked up big time. Why does the American govt. feel it has the right to choose who can become a nuclear power or not anyway?

The original nytimes article implies that the U.S. started this program as a way to prevent Israel from responding in a military way to Iran's nuclear program. But yes, it certainly does seem that nary a geopolitical snafu goes by without the U.S. being involved.

That's because you hear about the snafus, not the successes. There is much more incentive inkeeping the successes black, classified, and burried. Snafus are, almost by definition, just the things you hear about---otherwise, whos's to say?

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#24

Post by abrahamsen »

ars wrote: post #5

arstechnica is taking the NY Times article and extrapolating too much. Confirmed? No it's not. It was suspected before, and it still is. And lost control would imply they could not control what it did to the target, which is incorrect. It did escape to the wild, but that's not really loosing control when it was designed to do nothing harmful on non target machines. Better to read the original, and the discussion on i…

Unless David E. Sanger is a new Jayson Blair, I'd say the connection is confirmed, not just suspected. There are no weasel words in the article, meaning both the journalist, his editor, and NYT are putting their reputation at stake. This is as strong as a newspaper story gets.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#25

Post by rooshdi »

joshmaker wrote: post #20
Fizzadar wrote: post #4

This feels similar to the Megaupload case; America desperately throwing its weight around outside it's borders, with a total disregard for the law. And, just like the Megaupload case, they have fucked up big time. Why does the American govt. feel it has the right to choose who can become a nuclear power or not anyway?

Because Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treat... ) and their development of Nuclear weapons is thus in violation of international law.

Violation of international law huh...as long as the law doesn't apply to America or Israel I guess:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_s...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/29/us-israel-nuclear-...

Oh, that and the fact that America and Israel can't trust anyone but themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5-9aAFvWXA

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#26

Post by Morg »

HIV (just to be clear, I have no clue wether HIV was assisted by some military programmes, but I can safely say such "mistakes" have been made in the past by the same army, like when they used to test nukes for example)

Luckily this time it's a simple pc virus we can easily disassemble and counter - I think cyber war's still miles better than the alternatives.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#27

Post by slurgfest »

abrahamsen wrote: post #24
ars wrote: post #5

arstechnica is taking the NY Times article and extrapolating too much. Confirmed? No it's not. It was suspected before, and it still is. And lost control would imply they could not control what it did to the target, which is incorrect. It did escape to the wild, but that's not really loosing control when it was designed to do nothing harmful on non target machines. Better to read the original, and the discussion on i…

Unless David E. Sanger is a new Jayson Blair, I'd say the connection is confirmed, not just suspected. There are no weasel words in the article, meaning both the journalist, his editor, and NYT are putting their reputation at stake. This is as strong as a newspaper story gets.

Is it really true that "someone published in a newspaper said so, therefore we can rely on its being true"? I don't think so.

Hard data, credible sources are what make a strong newspaper story - not a convenient message from someone who would be embarrassed if the story were untrue (something which is at least as hard to disprove in this case as it is to actually prove)

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#28

Post by ck2 »

It's a new cold war. Eventually Iran will write viruses in return to attack US power grid.

All fun and games until Homeland Security Theater is given new powers to raid your home and shoot your dog if they think your computer is being used as part of a botnet.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#29

Post by slurgfest »

rooshdi wrote: post #25
joshmaker wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treat ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treat... ) and their development of Nuclear weapons is thus in violation of international law.

Violation of international law huh...as long as the law doesn't apply to America or Israel I guess: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_s... http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/29/us-israel-nuclear-... Oh, that and the fact that America and Israel can't trust anyone but themselves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5-9aAFvWXA

No arguments on settlements, but would you point to hard evidence that the US is in violation of NPT? I am getting tired of sourceless claims here.

Re: US and Israel created Stuxnet, lost control of it

#30

Post by slurgfest »

netcan wrote: post #7
Fizzadar wrote: post #4

This feels similar to the Megaupload case; America desperately throwing its weight around outside it's borders, with a total disregard for the law. And, just like the Megaupload case, they have fucked up big time. Why does the American govt. feel it has the right to choose who can become a nuclear power or not anyway?

Some things are a question of right, some things are a question of need or interest. The US has enemies and it doesn't want them to have nuclear weapons.

Because it could ONLY be the US which doesn't want Iran to have nuclear weapons (or for that matter, all of the Middle East to be in a nuclear arms race). Right?
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