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What We're Working on in Firefox

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#41

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

gamepsys wrote: post #14

As a Firefox daily user, this list makes me better understand why Firefox has such a low market share. Reorganizing menus or adding alt text to PDFs won't make any impact on user adoption/churn because users don't care. The alt text specifically sounds like resume engineering for some developers that want "on device generative ai" as a bullet point on this LinkedIn. Bullet points like this wouldn't be a problem if Fi…

> I think they should pick 2-5 things and focus on those, such as multi-device sync, privacy, speed, battery life performance, customization, etc.

They did; they've been pushing on speed and privacy for a long time. It mostly turns out that the problem isn't usually technical superiority, unfortunately. (The problem is that Microsoft shoves Edge in users' faces every chance they get, and Google has been giving Chrome an unfair advantage for ages (notice that when people complain about Firefox being slow, it's usually on Google sites).)

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#42

Post by lainga »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #18
blizdiddy wrote: post #5

> More streamlined menus that reduce visual clutter and prioritize top user actions so you can get to the important things quicker Oh no, more of this. What about less used options? How much slower? How much less discoverable? Desktop applications are already for power users almost by definition, let’s not slow them down for the sake of reducing “clutter”. Absolutely annoying trend of the last 15 years or so.

IDK, they're just following what Chrome has been doing forever now, and it has worked there. I guess that really is what the vast majority of normal people want. And considering how even among my most tech-savy friends and colleagues Chrome appears to be the browser of choice, it seems even these folks don't really care...

Quickly thumbing through my product book for "gaining market segment by making yourself indistinguishable from competition"

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#43

Post by Kye »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #34
iforgotpassword wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK, they're just following what Chrome has been doing forever now, and it has worked there. I guess that really is what the vast majority of normal people want. And considering how even among my most tech-savy friends and colleagues Chrome appears to be the browser of choice, it seems even these folks don't really care...

That doesn't necessarily follow; a person could easily argue that Chrome won because Google abused its search monopoly to push it, then kept winning because of inertia. Unless your friends specifically prefer Chrome because of UX reasons, it could be unrelated.

Firefox certainly didn't help by becoming a bloated mess. Firefox was bad when Chrome came out. All Chrome did was the same thing Firefox did to IE in the same situation: take advantage of complacency. Google's heavy and sometimes ethically questionable promotion of Chrome was an amplifying force, but not sufficient.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#44

Post by cassianoleal »

slobiwan wrote: post #9

Is anybody currently using Sidebery who could comment on how the Firefox "Tab grouping, Vertical tabs, and sidebar" compare?

Given that they seem to have only prioritised those features, I doubt anyone can since there's nothing material to compare to.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#45

Post by a0123 »

lainga wrote: post #42
iforgotpassword wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK, they're just following what Chrome has been doing forever now, and it has worked there. I guess that really is what the vast majority of normal people want. And considering how even among my most tech-savy friends and colleagues Chrome appears to be the browser of choice, it seems even these folks don't really care...

Quickly thumbing through my product book for "gaining market segment by making yourself indistinguishable from competition"

Yes, but the current design and direction are very clearly not working.

You can hardly blame them for trying to emulate what's currently working for everyone else when everything you've tried so far has led to your downfall.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#46

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

behnamoh wrote: post #22

Looking at the comments, I'm not surprised about FF's low market share. They chose to target geeks and nerds, and let's face it, we tend to be whiny about almost everything and complain about any new change. Meanwhile, Google Chrome doesn't even need to pretend like they care about privacy, so they automatically target the other "ordinary" people who are not so picky about every new release note. This kinda teaches y…

No, it's worse than that - they chose to target geeks, then decided to throw out the geeks in an attempt to target a more mainstream audience[0] and then failed to actually get the mainstream userbase, leaving them with neither the nerds nor the normies.

[0] Firefox has always been at its strongest as a power-user's browser, chock-full of extensions and tweaks. Mozilla met this advantage with... two extinction events for extensions, and removal of customization options.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#47

Post by Kye »

tresclow wrote: post #37
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #13

> We’ve been listening to your feedback, and we’re prioritizing the features you want most. > Tab Grouping, Vertical Tabs, and our handy Sidebar will help you stay organized no matter how many tabs you have open — whether it’s 7 or 7,500. > Plus, our new Profile Management system will help keep your school, work, and personal browsing separate but easily accessible. Wow, that ... actually is what users have been aski…

I remember around 2012 Firefox did use to have tab grouping, and they dropped the functionality after. I remember a friend of mine being annoyed for that, although I myself didn't appreciate much the functionality.

I could never figure out how it worked.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#48

Post by lotsofpulp »

behnamoh wrote: post #22

Looking at the comments, I'm not surprised about FF's low market share. They chose to target geeks and nerds, and let's face it, we tend to be whiny about almost everything and complain about any new change. Meanwhile, Google Chrome doesn't even need to pretend like they care about privacy, so they automatically target the other "ordinary" people who are not so picky about every new release note. This kinda teaches y…

It also does not help that many of the big businesses break their website if you do not let them track you.

I use Safari + Wipr Content blocker with iCloud Private Relay, and it is just so inconvenient to do anything on many major websites. At the least I have to reload the website without a content blocker, and at worst, I have to use Chrome, giving up my privacy.

If a somewhat computer literate person like me who knows about content blockers/iCloud Private Relay/VPN/ublock Origin has to relent and use Chrome, then what chance does a layperson have? They will just use Chrome and go on about their business. They want to spend their life doing other things, not figuring out why Target is not letting them order this clothing item they spent 10 minutes looking for because they are getting flagged as a bot or fraudster or simply not letting themselves be tracked.

I especially love when you block location access to a retailer's website, and then the retailer breaks their functionality for choosing the actual store you want to shop at. They have your billing and shipping address from previous orders, they have your 2FA login, and yet, every single time, they ask for access to your location, and when you decline, they set your store to some random store within a few hundred miles of you because (I assume) they are trying to use your IP address to show you the store.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#49

Post by cassianoleal »

dbg31415 wrote: post #8

For me, the big thing Firefox needs is better power management. Mac user here, and streaming video or doing a video call just kills my battery compared to Chrome or Safari. Would love to see more focus on energy consumption optimization.

Mac user here as well. Chrome kills my laptop (though I've uninstalled it about a year ago and never looked back). Firefox is pretty good. Safari is better, at least in terms of power management.

Firefox is my main browser, and it's a beast. Very low footprint, snappy and very decent in terms of power consumption.

Re: What We're Working on in Firefox

#50

Post by Teever »

JohnFen wrote: post #15
blizdiddy wrote: post #5

> More streamlined menus that reduce visual clutter and prioritize top user actions so you can get to the important things quicker Oh no, more of this. What about less used options? How much slower? How much less discoverable? Desktop applications are already for power users almost by definition, let’s not slow them down for the sake of reducing “clutter”. Absolutely annoying trend of the last 15 years or so.

The dumbing down of applications, including FF, is incredibly annoying and off-putting. I get it, though. FF probably wants to be friendly and approachable to the average non-techie person. I just wish that it (and other applications) would at least have an "expert mode" that isn't aimed just at the casual user.

The implication of what you're saying is that it somehow isn't friendly and approachable to your average non-techie person, which doesn't make sense because the UI paradigm of browsers hasn't really changed for 20+ years and Firefox has been just fine for technies to switch their parents/grandparents over to for years now.

The problem with Firefox isn't the UI, the problem with Firefox is mismanagement by the board that has been captured by Google and the lack of proper antitrust action against Google by the US and EU.

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