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The rise of the disposable car

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Re: The rise of the disposable car

#211

Post by giobox »

nimbius wrote: post #86
jandrese wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's usually not the engine that fails. The transmission is far more likely to be the weak point, and after that it is rust destroying the body or frame. The average age of a car is like 13 years old. Most people are definitely not buying new ones every 5 years.

I agree, a transmission is really only good for around 200k miles. However, you can buy a used transmission in most cases for under 3 grand, and again labor for this thanks to automation is likely less than $500. The real blocker I dont mention is time. Your shop will need that car for a few days and shipping will take time too. At some point the wait isnt worth it anymore. The upside is, 2 used Toyotas are still che…

> and again labor for this thanks to automation is likely less than $500.

What "automation" innovations have lowered the cost of unbolting a heavy transmission out the back of an engine and attaching a new one??

As best I can tell, the process has been unchanged in a workshop for nigh on 40 to 50 years at this point - it's humans with wrenches and a car lift. I want to see this shop that will swap me a trans for under 500 bucks too...

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#212

Post by sinaid »

nimbius wrote: post #75

The rich have been flogging this idea since cash for clunkers. That, because they run through cars like shit through a goose, you will too. Speaking as a master diesel mechanic, this is a deleterious line of thinking for anyone with less than a few million dollars. Every car has 20 years of parts, and most Japanese cars have closer into 50 years of parts. Any engine built after 2010 will likely last half a million mi…

I agree I want go get another 12 out if my 2012 Toyota. Probably the carbon saving from building a new car outweighs using fossil fuels a bit longer.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#213

Post by sinaid »

toast0 wrote: post #81
nimbius wrote: post #75

The rich have been flogging this idea since cash for clunkers. That, because they run through cars like shit through a goose, you will too. Speaking as a master diesel mechanic, this is a deleterious line of thinking for anyone with less than a few million dollars. Every car has 20 years of parts, and most Japanese cars have closer into 50 years of parts. Any engine built after 2010 will likely last half a million mi…

At least in my area, the problem is labor costs. If you can do things yourself, it's great. If you need a mechanic to do it, you're looking at a big expense, because mechanic labor is expensive and there's a lot more covers and harder to get to parts these days. 'Maintenance free' transmissions are very common in newer cars, and they do tend to need less maintenance, but when they do, there's often not a great way to…

Where I live a bad year costs $2000 in maintenance costs and usually it is less. Investing the cost of a new car in SPY would give the same amount every year, compounding and virtually tax free*

* You control when you sell and pay tax, sell in small amounts when not working to minimize tax, compounding gains are not taxed until sale, death allows tax free passing to children.

I wont even get into salary sacrifice!

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#214

Post by SkyPuncher »

neuralRiot wrote: post #141
balderdash wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re right but I think (at least in my own experience) that what gets people to buy a new(er) car is that that people don’t like driving cars that have broken things (windows, switches, lights etc.) that make no sense to fix (say $1500, to fix something non-essential on a car that’s only worth $10k)

Then they go and pay $1500 a month for 6 years.

That’s roughly a 100k vehicle.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#215

Post by giobox »

toast0 wrote: post #205
jmrm wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a mechanic, but they can see the brand and model on the part and call the manufacture or just google it. If it's the same as the car's brand, or if they don't give any information, you can check forums to get that information, otherwise sometimes they can find this information in their AutoData service. Checking that state of the fluid isn't difficult, as is bright red when it's new, and turns more and more b…

> Checking that state of the fluid isn't difficult, as is bright red when it's new, and turns more and more brown when it's used, and it's mostly used normally between 50k and 100l AFAIK. Yeah, but getting to the fluid to see it is hard. They stopped putting in dipsticks, so hopefully there's a check plug somewhere you can get to.

Is the check plug really even necessary for a trans fluid swap a lot of the time?

I just drain mines and refill to specified amount, I've never once cared for a check plug and just change it every ~50k miles on most of my cars, regardless of color. It's usually not an expensive fluid.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#216

Post by SkyPuncher »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #178
_yb2s wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really only true if you consider within the same class or model of car, where the technology has advanced... but old cars are so affordable you can get a much higher end and much safer car. Do you think a 2024 Chevy Trax is safer than a 2012 Audi Q5? Both are compact SUVs but you can buy 3-4 nice condition low mileage Q5s for the price of the Chevy. Regardless of tech like changes in crumple zone design, you a…

Whatever you save on the upfront cost of a used Q5 you'll pay on the backend the first time it needs service.

It’s a Volkswagen under the hood. Besides some “performance” components most are going to be exactly the same as a Volkswagen.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#217

Post by SkyPuncher »

dsalfdslfdsa wrote: post #7
dragontamer wrote: post #4

https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/avera... The opposite. With cars reaching much more advanced ages today, when a collision happens it's a write-off. The modern car isn't 'disposable'. In fact, all statistics point to us holding onto cars longer today than ever before. Today's cars are the most durable that they've ever been.

The OP's article was careful to make this distinction, and I think it's very interesting (as well as being the crucial point of the article). Cars are now more reliable and last longer, but when they do develop a problem, it's less economically viable to repair them.

This has largely become my wife and is attitude.

We generally get about 8 years out of a car before we start running into larger repairs. This tends to become the point we decide to trade it in for something new.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#218

Post by xattt »

toast0 wrote: post #205
jmrm wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a mechanic, but they can see the brand and model on the part and call the manufacture or just google it. If it's the same as the car's brand, or if they don't give any information, you can check forums to get that information, otherwise sometimes they can find this information in their AutoData service. Checking that state of the fluid isn't difficult, as is bright red when it's new, and turns more and more b…

> Checking that state of the fluid isn't difficult, as is bright red when it's new, and turns more and more brown when it's used, and it's mostly used normally between 50k and 100l AFAIK. Yeah, but getting to the fluid to see it is hard. They stopped putting in dipsticks, so hopefully there's a check plug somewhere you can get to.

Some fluids are proprietary, like Nissan’s earlier CVT oil which probably costs more than printer ink. Using some near-beer brand often resulted transmission failure.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#219

Post by joe_the_user »

toast0 wrote: post #81
nimbius wrote: post #75

The rich have been flogging this idea since cash for clunkers. That, because they run through cars like shit through a goose, you will too. Speaking as a master diesel mechanic, this is a deleterious line of thinking for anyone with less than a few million dollars. Every car has 20 years of parts, and most Japanese cars have closer into 50 years of parts. Any engine built after 2010 will likely last half a million mi…

At least in my area, the problem is labor costs. If you can do things yourself, it's great. If you need a mechanic to do it, you're looking at a big expense, because mechanic labor is expensive and there's a lot more covers and harder to get to parts these days. 'Maintenance free' transmissions are very common in newer cars, and they do tend to need less maintenance, but when they do, there's often not a great way to…

It was once typical for commonly occurring repair problems (replacing accessories like alternators and starters) that the labor costs pretty much equaled to the cost of parts. It was different for critical things like engines and transmissions but I think for a long time losing an engineer or transmission totaled the car.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#220

Post by ssl-3 »

jmrm wrote: post #201
ssl-3 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does find a phone number for General Motors that lets someone talk to the person who knows these details and is both willing and able to relay them? [insert rant here about BMW's "lifetime" fluid in the 4L30E that they used in E36s]

I'm not a mechanic, but they can see the brand and model on the part and call the manufacture or just google it. If it's the same as the car's brand, or if they don't give any information, you can check forums to get that information, otherwise sometimes they can find this information in their AutoData service. Checking that state of the fluid isn't difficult, as is bright red when it's new, and turns more and more b…

I'm not a mechanic, either. Googling is easy, and also is often imprecise.

That's why I was wondering how to contact GM about the 4L30E that they built and sold to BMW, as was suggested.

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