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The rise of the disposable car

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Re: The rise of the disposable car

#151

Post by magicalhippo »

consp wrote: post #147
magicalhippo wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The my front left indicator light went on my BMW i3. Tried looking up the specs for the bulb to buy a new one. Of course it wasn't that simple. Oh boy was I naive. No, it required a whole new headlight assembly, $800 plus labor. Funnily enough, the car got totalled shortly after, before I had decided to go ahead with the repair. Someone hit my SO as she was in a roundabout, and the impact moved the car several meters…

On my ford it's three bolts and two cables and you can take the headlight unit out, 5 minutes work tops. And that's with LED lights which should never be replaced (by the owner as they always need calibration). On my previous one it was even easier to let them stay in and move your hand in an awkward position to get the job done.

Nice. Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad, had the unit itself been reasonably priced.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#152

Post by blakes »

nimbius wrote: post #86
jandrese wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's usually not the engine that fails. The transmission is far more likely to be the weak point, and after that it is rust destroying the body or frame. The average age of a car is like 13 years old. Most people are definitely not buying new ones every 5 years.

I agree, a transmission is really only good for around 200k miles. However, you can buy a used transmission in most cases for under 3 grand, and again labor for this thanks to automation is likely less than $500. The real blocker I dont mention is time. Your shop will need that car for a few days and shipping will take time too. At some point the wait isnt worth it anymore. The upside is, 2 used Toyotas are still che…

There is probably no transmission in a US road car that can be replaced for $500 in labor at an auto shop. Your buddy or some rando may do it, but no shop will for that price. Typical shop rate is $120-$220/hour. Most shops are going to charge a minimum of 4 hours, but probably closer to 8 hours. Have you ever been under a car? The amount of "automation" required to replace a transmission is still in the arena of science fiction.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#153

Post by bloomingeek »

Old timer here, back in the day (60s thru 80s) owners worked on their cars to save money, this kept garage repair prices in check because they knew we had another choice, ourselves. Today, I still service my vehicles because I purchased the electronic meters and testers that are required. (I realize not everyone thinks they have the ability to service their car, YouTube is a great source.

Maybe you don't want to get your hands dirty. While changing out a turn signal light can be a pain, you can do it, thus saving a lot of money. Accomplishing a difficult job is a very good feeling. If you don't have the required tools, rent or borrow them.

There are limitations, I tend to drive my vehicles to higher mileage. I won't change out half-shafts anymore or automatic window motors, as I have in the past many times. (I pay the garage to do it now.) But this is due to age, not how difficult the job is. Auto garages are opportunist, they'll charge whatever the market can stand, just like the new car sales. Until we make them change, they won't.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#154

Post by _yb2s »

alliao wrote: post #143
_yb2s wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Older cars are massively undervalued in the USA because of social norms, which is a massive opportunity to anyone willing to exploit it to get reliable transportation for nearly free. People are afraid that older cars are dangerous, unreliable, or (worst of all) will make you look poor, but all 3 are just misinformation. Boats and airplanes are just as reliable when old as new because they're maintained well- and car…

I think it's a lot to do with how it's designed too.. I kept an old hatchback bmw made in 2000 and that thing already have bit of plastic parts in the engine bay (coolant pipes no less) which are just time bombs. parts and labour costs are usually why people decided to go newer cars. good job on the old porsche though, just don't get the one with starter motor in the transmission case.. some of them are maintenance n…

I'm not familiar with BMWs of that era, but other German cars from that era, the plastic cooling system pipes will likely last forever- they don't corrode or crack like metal pipes would over time.

For really critical things like through hulls below the waterline on boats, plastic pipes like glass filled nylon (Marelon) are considered safer and more reliable than metal, because they never corrode, and are much physically stronger than a comparable weight metal part.

I grew up with 1970s European cars where every plastic or rubber part would fail eventually, but by the 90s the materials got much better.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#155

Post by lttlrck »

alliao wrote: post #140
bluedino wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any engine built after 2010 will likely last half a million miles or more as a feature of quality control and automation alone. The engine block and rotating assembly might. But all the crap that is bolted on won't. Several engines are known for having the turbocharger fail. Which is now integrated in the exhaust manifold. Timing components are junkier and junkier these days. And somewhere in the 2000's, some of th…

can't get anything for free these days.. an emphasis on efficiency seems to drive up efficiency to the point where they're disposable after 5yrs

Save the environment with one hand and punch it in the face with the other.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#156

Post by bluGill »

neuralRiot wrote: post #141
balderdash wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re right but I think (at least in my own experience) that what gets people to buy a new(er) car is that that people don’t like driving cars that have broken things (windows, switches, lights etc.) that make no sense to fix (say $1500, to fix something non-essential on a car that’s only worth $10k)

Then they go and pay $1500 a month for 6 years.

No, they are paying $500/month for 6 years. The people who buy new cars (or often lease) are getting rid of them after 3 years - long before those small things are breaking. Those cars go to used car buyers who drive them for 6-10 years, and they eventually decide $500/month is worth getting something newer that doesn't have all those small annoyances, while the car goes on to someone poor who will live with anything that gets them around cheap.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#157

Post by bluGill »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #109
nimbius wrote: post #75

The rich have been flogging this idea since cash for clunkers. That, because they run through cars like shit through a goose, you will too. Speaking as a master diesel mechanic, this is a deleterious line of thinking for anyone with less than a few million dollars. Every car has 20 years of parts, and most Japanese cars have closer into 50 years of parts. Any engine built after 2010 will likely last half a million mi…

If you look at light vehicle sales in the US they've been stuck at 17 million units a year for the last 25. I think that's why manufacturers keep retching up the size and cost of cars. I keep seeing manufacturers spam in my engineering newsletters that point towards batteries that last 500,000 to maybe a million miles. And I know that electric motors can go that far. Potentially talking about cars that last 40-50 yea…

ICE engines today can got 500k miles - most cars don't last that long though because other things go first. My wife's car runs great at 220k miles, but we want to replace it because of all the little things that are broken - things that are completely unrelated to the engine and would fail just as likely on a EV.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#158

Post by wing-_-nuts »

alliao wrote: post #140
bluedino wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any engine built after 2010 will likely last half a million miles or more as a feature of quality control and automation alone. The engine block and rotating assembly might. But all the crap that is bolted on won't. Several engines are known for having the turbocharger fail. Which is now integrated in the exhaust manifold. Timing components are junkier and junkier these days. And somewhere in the 2000's, some of th…

can't get anything for free these days.. an emphasis on efficiency seems to drive up efficiency to the point where they're disposable after 5yrs

Au contrare, the toyota hybrids are some of the most reliable vehicles on the road. Don't blame fuel efficiency for a lazy design from an automaker.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#159

Post by specialist »

magicalhippo wrote: post #116
throwaway48476 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern cars aren't designed to be easy to work on which really inflates the labor hours required for even trivial issues.

The my front left indicator light went on my BMW i3. Tried looking up the specs for the bulb to buy a new one. Of course it wasn't that simple. Oh boy was I naive. No, it required a whole new headlight assembly, $800 plus labor. Funnily enough, the car got totalled shortly after, before I had decided to go ahead with the repair. Someone hit my SO as she was in a roundabout, and the impact moved the car several meters…

My neighbor has BMW z3. He has same story about its lights, which fail more than you'd expect.

Also: It's a hard top convertible. The mechanicism stopped fully opening or closing. Bummer. Two repair shops gave ridiculous quotes to troubleshoot and repair.

Using a scanner (generic OBD II scanner with BMW's specific codes), we narrowed the search. The ultimate fix was just two $15 switches. Being noobs, it took us some effort to detach and reattach the hard top.

I don't mind the labor effort (costs). It is a BMW after all. But it's ridiculous that these cars can't report their failing electronic bits.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#160

Post by rozap »

_yb2s wrote: post #148
rozap wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will make you look poor I have an oldish (1997) exotic car as a toy. It cost less upfront than a new Toyota Camry. At a car meet, I overheard someone say to their friend "Man, if I had infinite money, this is what I'd get". I definitely do not own a money printing machine. Maintenance is something else but I do the work myself so it's not bad. And the fun thing about old low volume exotics is that they are mostly p…

Same, I'm the "rich guy" picking up my son at school in an old Porsche I got cheap on Craigslist and maintain myself, despite the fact that its a school my kid was transferred to in a wealthy neighborhood we can't afford to live in. It cost me way way less than a newer economy car would. It's funny the general reactions I get- young men try to race me at stoplights, and strangers on the street will often give me a de…

The street race invitations are funny. I get that a lot in my Esprit and, apart from it being incredibly stupid and dangerous, new cars are so absurdly fast in a straight line that everyone knows who would win.

It was uncomfortable at first having people oogle over the car and make assumptions, but the number of conversations it has started with people genuinely interested in it definitely outweighs the awkwardness.

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