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The rise of the disposable car

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Re: The rise of the disposable car

#101

Post by throwaway48476 »

toast0 wrote: post #81
nimbius wrote: post #75

The rich have been flogging this idea since cash for clunkers. That, because they run through cars like shit through a goose, you will too. Speaking as a master diesel mechanic, this is a deleterious line of thinking for anyone with less than a few million dollars. Every car has 20 years of parts, and most Japanese cars have closer into 50 years of parts. Any engine built after 2010 will likely last half a million mi…

At least in my area, the problem is labor costs. If you can do things yourself, it's great. If you need a mechanic to do it, you're looking at a big expense, because mechanic labor is expensive and there's a lot more covers and harder to get to parts these days. 'Maintenance free' transmissions are very common in newer cars, and they do tend to need less maintenance, but when they do, there's often not a great way to…

Modern cars aren't designed to be easy to work on which really inflates the labor hours required for even trivial issues.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#102

Post by sokoloff »

AnarchismIsCool wrote: post #72
salad-tycoon wrote: post #48

I just want a cheap, safe dependable car. Anti lock brakes, a couple of air bags, crumple zones, maybe Bluetooth, real dials, two base versions: AWD and non AWD. That’s it. No telephony, no on star, no breathalyzers. I don’t need to play Witcher in it. Just need it to turn on and then off after running around. I’m holding onto my ancient POS because it’s impossible apparently to find the above. Everything is new and…

I wish there was an actual community of people building open source cars. It exists for fucking airplanes but there's __nothing__ on the vehicle market. Pool some money, crash test a couple, get some shop in asia to make frames. Make it fairly modular, something like an EV version of the 1995 ford ranger, something where people can throw whatever they want on the back and turn it into anything. Super bare minimum, no…

There are kit car sellers and you can build yourself a car (kit or plans), but it’s a ridiculous amount of time to hand-build a car from plans and still a very large amount of time to build and paint a kit car.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#103

Post by talldatethrow »

doubled112 wrote: post #97
nimbius wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, a transmission is really only good for around 200k miles. However, you can buy a used transmission in most cases for under 3 grand, and again labor for this thanks to automation is likely less than $500. The real blocker I dont mention is time. Your shop will need that car for a few days and shipping will take time too. At some point the wait isnt worth it anymore. The upside is, 2 used Toyotas are still che…

Dealers are charging about $200/hr labour in my area. Independent shops are $150/hr and up. I don't think anybody is replacing my transmission for $500. Did you mean the whole job for less than $5000?

The entire comment seems off. They said thanks to automation labor will be $500. What automation is there in replacing a used transmission in a garage on an oily rusty 200k mile car on a lift.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#104

Post by throwaway48476 »

bluGill wrote: post #76
AnarchismIsCool wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was an actual community of people building open source cars. It exists for fucking airplanes but there's __nothing__ on the vehicle market. Pool some money, crash test a couple, get some shop in asia to make frames. Make it fairly modular, something like an EV version of the 1995 ford ranger, something where people can throw whatever they want on the back and turn it into anything. Super bare minimum, no…

People make their own airplanes. What nobody tells you is that most people who complete the airplane would be time and money ahead getting a job at McDonald's and buying a completed airplane once they saved up enough money. However there are not enough people who want an airplane to pay for the costs/liability of setting up a factory to build one and so you have no choice if you want a new one. People also build thei…

You're conflating the airplane market with the market for experimental aircraft.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#105

Post by talldatethrow »

floxy wrote: post #65
yareally wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a genuine sentiment or just people upset that their favorite vehicle won't have a massive gas guzzling engine anymore? There are a number of people that also dislike trucks with aluminum bodies, despite that aluminum alloys can be strong (aircraft use them all the time) and it keeps your truck from turning into a rust bucket after 5 years of snowy winters. Car ownership is not always a rational thing and peop…

>There's a number of reliable auto makers using CVTs for years, such as Subaru Isn't the CVT going bad one of the main complaints people have with Subaru? Like at 100,000-150,000 miles. Other than the head gasket issue which was fixed a decade ago? Asking, since I'm in the market for a used vehicle, and the CVT reliability has me hesitant.

Subaru CVTs tend to burn up a solenoid in the valve body. They are available for $30-40 on eBay and take about 3 hours to do for the first time.

Dealers charge $3000 for the job. They install all new valve bodies for about $1200, and for some reason want 8 hours for the job.

I helped a friend do it after watching some YouTube videos, and we just swapped the one bad solenoid. 20k miles later, 120k total, everything is fine.

The problem isn't always the cars even. It's the entire repair model.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#106

Post by throwaway48476 »

bluGill wrote: post #99
ip26 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every day in the United States, a large number of cars are being produced. Most of these cars never get sold to customers because people just can’t afford them. Oh yes, that makes perfect sense, every day they make 100 cars and then scrap more than 50 of them. The car manufacturing industry can’t stop producing new automobiles because they would have to close their factories and lay off thousands of their workers. Ri…

Layoffs do happen, but they are hard to do because the auto makers are selling some cars. The factory works at one speed, and so if they sell 100 cars but make 200 what can they do. The above is why companies try to do just in time manufacturing. However this is always easier on paper than the real world. Those factories need to shutdown for a week-several months every year to repair tools and rearrange for the next…

Sometimes car manufacturers overproduce and you can see giant fields of cars on satellite imagery.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#107

Post by talldatethrow »

tonetegeatinst wrote: post #58

I'm conflicted. I know modern vehicles are so complex and if something breaks it actually is cheaper to just go bet a new car.....but I don't really like that. On the other hand, most of my close family that I know has a vehicle that is fixable. I know how to do basic stuff like change oil, change a tire or break pads, but I also know how much vehicles are digital and I really don't enjoy that.

Every vehicle is fixable. When you replace your modern vehicle, someone buys it and fixes it and sells it for a profit.

I've had friends trade in $30k vehicles with problems for $15k and then be surprised when it's on the dealer website in 7 days for $30k fixed.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#108

Post by skhunted »

a1371 wrote: post #60
skhunted wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think about Cubans keeping cars from 1950s running for as long as they did? It seems to me that maybe we live in a society that is overly permissive of replacing items.

This kind of argument ignores the real cost of having to upkeep a 50s car: the human suffering. Cubans are forced to use this option and their society suffers from it.

From an environmental perspective it’s a good thing. Don’t know if that makes it worth it but we are creating far too much pollution.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#109

Post by Gibbon1 »

nimbius wrote: post #75

The rich have been flogging this idea since cash for clunkers. That, because they run through cars like shit through a goose, you will too. Speaking as a master diesel mechanic, this is a deleterious line of thinking for anyone with less than a few million dollars. Every car has 20 years of parts, and most Japanese cars have closer into 50 years of parts. Any engine built after 2010 will likely last half a million mi…

If you look at light vehicle sales in the US they've been stuck at 17 million units a year for the last 25. I think that's why manufacturers keep retching up the size and cost of cars.

I keep seeing manufacturers spam in my engineering newsletters that point towards batteries that last 500,000 to maybe a million miles. And I know that electric motors can go that far. Potentially talking about cars that last 40-50 years.

You can imagine that makes the investor class unhappy, cause maybe the number of cars sold will drop.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#110

Post by bluedino »

nimbius wrote: post #75

The rich have been flogging this idea since cash for clunkers. That, because they run through cars like shit through a goose, you will too. Speaking as a master diesel mechanic, this is a deleterious line of thinking for anyone with less than a few million dollars. Every car has 20 years of parts, and most Japanese cars have closer into 50 years of parts. Any engine built after 2010 will likely last half a million mi…

> Any engine built after 2010 will likely last half a million miles or more as a feature of quality control and automation alone.

The engine block and rotating assembly might. But all the crap that is bolted on won't.

Several engines are known for having the turbocharger fail. Which is now integrated in the exhaust manifold.

Timing components are junkier and junkier these days. And somewhere in the 2000's, some of the manufacturers decided to make complicated systems where cylinders deactivate to allow for fuel savings, and those are all an unreliable mess.

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