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The rise of the disposable car

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Re: The rise of the disposable car

#21

Post by ToucanLoucan »

dsalfdslfdsa wrote: post #7
dragontamer wrote: post #4

https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/avera... The opposite. With cars reaching much more advanced ages today, when a collision happens it's a write-off. The modern car isn't 'disposable'. In fact, all statistics point to us holding onto cars longer today than ever before. Today's cars are the most durable that they've ever been.

The OP's article was careful to make this distinction, and I think it's very interesting (as well as being the crucial point of the article). Cars are now more reliable and last longer, but when they do develop a problem, it's less economically viable to repair them.

I can't get the link to work at the moment so I was wondering: are the stats being covered here including or excluding EVs? I've read elsewhere that EV repair costs are artificially high due to various other factors surrounding the manufacture and distribution of their parts versus ICE vehicles, not only but especially the batteries being SO expensive that it borderline out-prices a new car.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#22

Post by rob74 »

beretguy wrote: post #5

Tangential but related: There are full parking lots with brand new cars that go under press or get disassembled for parts because dealership don’t want sell them at a cheaper prices. https://www.costulessdirect.com/blog/where-brand-new-unsold-... From article: > the unsold cars that are older than two years old, will have no alternative but to be either crushed, dismantled and/or their parts recycled. Want to see for…

> currently, there are 6 billion people on our plant, and 10 billion running cars. This is because most families own an average of two to three cars

False and false. According to more reputable sources, there are only ~ 1.5 billion cars in the world. And to the many families that own two or more cars in the US, there are many more families that own 0 cars elsewhere in the world...

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#23

Post by StableAlkyne »

dragontamer wrote: post #12
dsalfdslfdsa wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP's article was careful to make this distinction, and I think it's very interesting (as well as being the crucial point of the article). Cars are now more reliable and last longer, but when they do develop a problem, it's less economically viable to repair them.

The definition of 'Totaled' is when a comparable car on the used market can replace your vehicle for less than or equal to the repair costs. As such, it makes no sense to repair a totaled vehicle. You should instead buy a comparable used vehicle. But saying the word 'Disposable' is pretty bad with regards to the headline. It doesn't capture the full effect of what the stats are showing. That is, we are all keeping ve…

> As such, it makes no sense to repair a totaled vehicle. You should instead buy a comparable used vehicle.

I sometimes wonder how much the carbon footprint of the auto industry would change if people preferred to fix them instead of throwing the whole thing away just because of a fender bender or an expensive part broke

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#24

Post by hindsightbias »

pfdietz wrote: post #3

For a humorous and oddly interesting YouTube view on what happens to bad engines in cars, see the I Do Cars YouTube channel. Come for the oil starvation, stay for the newly installed inspection ports. On a good day, he'll get some parts to sell from each core. He also occasionally goes through the process of pulling usable parts from an entire junked car. https://www.youtube.com/@I_Do_Cars

I'll add: https://www.youtube.com/@TheCarCareNut

SUVs and smaller trucks are now almost universally moving to 4cyl and 6cyl turbos with iffy CVTs. The channels run by folks with greasy overalls are pretty uniform in saying these vehicles won't last like their predecessors (even the Toyotas).

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#25

Post by SoftTalker »

dragontamer wrote: post #12
dsalfdslfdsa wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP's article was careful to make this distinction, and I think it's very interesting (as well as being the crucial point of the article). Cars are now more reliable and last longer, but when they do develop a problem, it's less economically viable to repair them.

The definition of 'Totaled' is when a comparable car on the used market can replace your vehicle for less than or equal to the repair costs. As such, it makes no sense to repair a totaled vehicle. You should instead buy a comparable used vehicle. But saying the word 'Disposable' is pretty bad with regards to the headline. It doesn't capture the full effect of what the stats are showing. That is, we are all keeping ve…

As GP said, the author recognized that people are keeping cars longer and that they are more durable. However a new wrinkle is that "the proportion of brand new vehicles being written off has increased." This is due to the costs of repairing "Advanced Driver Assistance Systems” such as automatic braking and lane-keeping assistance. These systems include sensors, cameras, and other equipment that must be carefully calibrated, which adds a lot of skilled labor costs to the repairs. It's no longer the case that a repair is just hammering out dents and spraying some paint.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#26

Post by sokoloff »

StableAlkyne wrote: post #23
dragontamer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of 'Totaled' is when a comparable car on the used market can replace your vehicle for less than or equal to the repair costs. As such, it makes no sense to repair a totaled vehicle. You should instead buy a comparable used vehicle. But saying the word 'Disposable' is pretty bad with regards to the headline. It doesn't capture the full effect of what the stats are showing. That is, we are all keeping ve…

> As such, it makes no sense to repair a totaled vehicle. You should instead buy a comparable used vehicle. I sometimes wonder how much the carbon footprint of the auto industry would change if people preferred to fix them instead of throwing the whole thing away just because of a fender bender or an expensive part broke

Our CR-V was rear-ended. It's a great car and it's pretty likely to be totaled because the cost of repairs is going to end up being higher than the insurance company is willing to pay. (And then I expect it's going to be a massive fight for me to get paid enough to replace it like-for-like, but that's a separate issue from the overall footprint.)

I don't see any reasonable way around this, though. If I have a car that I could replace for $8K plus the cost of replicating some mods [CarPlay head unit, tow hitch, and heated seats] and would salvage for $1K, I can't reasonably expect someone else's insurance company to pay $12.5K in costs (for repairs plus rentals/loss of use plus diminished value plus incidentals) to put me back in a place where I then have a crash-repaired car worth $7K plus $1K in cash in my pocket for diminished value. What other carbon reduction could be bought for that extra $3K in costs vs. repairing our damaged car?

From the at-fault driver's and their insurance company's point of view: the driver's negligence caused around $8-9K of direct damages to me plus several hundred in incidental/related expenses. That's what the driver is liable for (and the insurance company on the hook to cover as per their agreement), not a $12+K figure for a liability for damages amount that was thousands lower.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#27

Post by csours »

Reminds me of this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40266464

https://eugeneyan.com/writing/simplicity/

“Simplicity is a great virtue but it requires hard work to achieve it and education to appreciate it. And to make matters worse: complexity sells better.” — Edsger Dijkstra

Especially:

Complexity signals more features.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#28

Post by DoneWithAllThat »

jseliger wrote: post #9

I live in Phoenix and now take Waymo regularly, and it seems like we're close to a world in which most people take self-driving cars most of the time, crash rates plummet, and these kinds of articles come to resemble articles from 1910 about horse-related problems. Humans suck at driving: https://jakeseliger.com/2019/12/16/maybe-cars-are-just-reall...

We’ve been “close” for 10+ years now. We are not close.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#29

Post by sparrc »

jseliger wrote: post #9

I live in Phoenix and now take Waymo regularly, and it seems like we're close to a world in which most people take self-driving cars most of the time, crash rates plummet, and these kinds of articles come to resemble articles from 1910 about horse-related problems. Humans suck at driving: https://jakeseliger.com/2019/12/16/maybe-cars-are-just-reall...

Phoenix has extremely wide and straight roads, with very few pedestrians, and very little rain or snow.

Compared to the entire world this is VERY anomalous, so I think we're still pretty far from "most people" using self-driving cars.

Re: The rise of the disposable car

#30

Post by odyssey7 »

StableAlkyne wrote: post #23
dragontamer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of 'Totaled' is when a comparable car on the used market can replace your vehicle for less than or equal to the repair costs. As such, it makes no sense to repair a totaled vehicle. You should instead buy a comparable used vehicle. But saying the word 'Disposable' is pretty bad with regards to the headline. It doesn't capture the full effect of what the stats are showing. That is, we are all keeping ve…

> As such, it makes no sense to repair a totaled vehicle. You should instead buy a comparable used vehicle. I sometimes wonder how much the carbon footprint of the auto industry would change if people preferred to fix them instead of throwing the whole thing away just because of a fender bender or an expensive part broke

People might prefer to fix them. The paradigm of replacing rather than repairing is effectively enforced by insurance policies.

A different insurance model would be necessary to adopt a repair orientation. Maybe it's the equivalent of paying more to be "green," except that consumers don't really consider it as an option when they buy a car insurance policy. It seems like this kind of option would justify higher insurance premiums, so maybe a major insurer could consider promoting one as environmentally friendly.

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