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I Miss BSD/Linux

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Re: I Miss BSD/Linux

#51

Post by gbin »

guenthert wrote: post #45
cqqxo4zV46cp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20 years brings you to 2004. You’ve either being dishonestly hyperbolic, or your experience is so slim or insanely lucky that it’s not useful as a representative account. That’s TWENTY YEARS. Not a chance in hell. Sometimes I think that desktop Linux users get so used the background noise of system maintenance that they forget that they’re even doing it. I say this as an ex heavy Linux desktop user. Distributions I u…

Some of us where using Linux desktop/laptops more than 20 years ago (I had a Toshiba Tecra upgraded to 48MiB RAM running happily Debian Linux in '97). And it wasn't a big deal. And I've seen this discussion every so often in the last thirty years. It's always the same: don't buy bleeding edge hardware.

Now we are lucky to have a good choice of laptops that are Linux friendly.

Re: I Miss BSD/Linux

#52

Post by cue_the_strings »

sshine wrote: post #37
hnlmorg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each year I spend close to zero hours dealing with edge case bugs and incompatibilities in Linux and BSD despite all of my personal devices running one form of FOSS OS or another. My personal laptop is ArchLinux and it definitely took longer to set up than macOS would have, but it’s been just as rock solid since. In fact, perhaps ironically, I’ve had more problems with my work MacBook Pro than I have with my personal…

> Each year I spend close to zero hours > My personal laptop is ArchLinux and it definitely took longer to set up I think the honest way to calculate maintenance time is to amortise setup time over the years your laptop is in active duty. That becomes like at least five hours per year for me. My Linux installations usually live for 2-3 years, and ArchLinux typically takes 1-2 evenings to set up: Partly because I enjo…

I set up my Arch install on my machine in 2015 and it took me a couple of days. That OS install has seen 5 SSDs so far, and 4 machines.

My secret? I only buy hardware that's known to work well with Linux, mostly thinkpads, and I really don't do anything on the machine beyond coding and web browsing + some light CAD, so I never get anything with GPUs.

Re: I Miss BSD/Linux

#53

Post by thrownawayjests »

After running Linux (plain, crappy boring Ubuntu) as my daily driver for the last few years, I'm convinced that we're at the point where the only real barrier to wider adoption is software, and this is less and less of an issue the more we work in the browser.

For your basic user, it's performant, simple, stable, and does everything a computer needs. Every time I boot up Windows it takes forever, I find that a new update that further fills my machine with crap requires a restart, I get super weird "news" and advertising thrown at me. I have no idea how normies put up with this.

Re: I Miss BSD/Linux

#54

Post by bachmeier »

grumpyprole wrote: post #46
bachmeier wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I have a Windows 11 laptop for work. It's had a few issues, including wifi connection problems for a while, but the one that has been most horrible is that it may or may not detect an external display. It's infuriating to plug it in and nothing happens. A reboot always fixes it, but that's no fun.

My work laptop, a Lenovo X1 running Windows 10, was completely busted out of the box. Sleep doesn't work, massive throttling issues running zoom (only improved a bit with firmware updates), WSL 100% CPU bugs, display port MST bugs, the list goes on and on. IT say all my issues are normal and known. About five years ago, I had a Linux Laptop for work, that was rock solid and I miss it very much.

Your post reminds me that my wife's Windows 11 laptop has a bug where it won't always shut down when she closes the lid. Sometimes I'll get up in the morning and hear the fan roaring, and the room will even be warm because of it. Guess who's the one that's going to have to figure out how to fix it. Her Windows maintenance time is low.

Re: I Miss BSD/Linux

#56

Post by TheRoque »

fragmede wrote: post #33
TheRoque wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but this is still true IMO. For example no good driver is available for the GTX 1080 which will result in a buggy experience. Not even talking about software availability and functionalities. I have had other issues, but anyways I don't want to list them all. I also find it misleading to claim that Arch Linux is "rock solid", just look at the news to see the amount of "manual intervention needed" listed. I lov…

> For example no good driver is available for the GTX 1080 which will result in a buggy experience. If you have a GTX 1080. For everyone else that has moved on from an 8 year old graphics card, they won't run into that particular issue. Hence some people reporting a rock solid experience with Arch Linux.

The age shouldn't be an issue, and it should actually be the opposite. Also, I'm not talking about Arch Linux in this case. For Arch, my issues were with the Network card. But as I said, just hop on the "news" panel on the arch linux website, and you'll see all the tiny manual interventions you have to do. For a "rock solid" UX, I would definitely not use Arch, but probably Mint or Fedora instead.

Re: I Miss BSD/Linux

#57

Post by soraminazuki »

pjmlp wrote: post #16

Around Windows 7 timeframe, I came to peace with FOSS UNIX clones never going to be as mature as proprietary OSes on laptops. Sure, the situation has improved a lot, but they still require compromises of not having everything supported like on desktop PCs, even when buying from Linux OEMs, my experience hasn't been that great. For a brief period, netbooks seemed to be on track, but then they suffered multiple attacks…

I think the situation is a whole lot different since the days of Windows 7.

The biggest change is that Windows just stopped caring. The UI is inconsistent and messy. It ceased to be an improvement over Linux a long time ago.

Crapware is also another problem. Windows had this problem since the 90s, but it's now worse with Microsoft itself pushing for them. It's the only major desktop operating system to have this problem.

Worst of all, it's a real pain to use. People avoiding it are no longer doing so out of abstract principles. It's just so bad that any person with self-respect wouldn't want to use it. From the constant resetting of user preferences to obnoxious banners and full screen nags, Microsoft is making it very clear that they have no respect at all for the users.

With modern Windows, users are expected to work for Windows and not the other way around. Any data it touches also becomes the property of Microsoft. Or at least they act as if that's the case.

Linux is slowly but steadily maturing. Also, end users are moving away from PCs, meaning those who still use one have a high likelihood of being a power user. I think FOSS desktops are more relevant than they were a decade ago.

Re: I Miss BSD/Linux

#58

Post by TheRoque »

bachmeier wrote: post #41
TheRoque wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but this is still true IMO. For example no good driver is available for the GTX 1080 which will result in a buggy experience. Not even talking about software availability and functionalities. I have had other issues, but anyways I don't want to list them all. I also find it misleading to claim that Arch Linux is "rock solid", just look at the news to see the amount of "manual intervention needed" listed. I lov…

Well, some folks had trouble with the GTX 1080 on Windows, so by your logic Windows is also no good: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/nvidia... https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/gtx-1080-no-display-... https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics...

I don't have the time to dig into all these links, but this might be different than an OS issue, more of a manufacturer, or a poor choice of hardware from the people posting it, or they messed up with their software (not updated driver etc.). Because in theory, the NVidia drivers for the GPUs are flawless on Windows. So this doesn't play at all in the Linux VS Windows balance.

Re: I Miss BSD/Linux

#59

Post by TheRoque »

worthless-trash wrote: post #34
TheRoque wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but this is still true IMO. For example no good driver is available for the GTX 1080 which will result in a buggy experience. Not even talking about software availability and functionalities. I have had other issues, but anyways I don't want to list them all. I also find it misleading to claim that Arch Linux is "rock solid", just look at the news to see the amount of "manual intervention needed" listed. I lov…

Turns out you buy hardware that works for your OS. You do it for OSX, why not for Linux ?

Yes, this is a good point, however when it comes to GPUs, you might not have an optimal choice at all, since some stuff come only on NVidia GPUs. However, after the GTX 1080 they released open source drivers and things should be better for more recent versions.

Re: I Miss BSD/Linux

#60

Post by wolvesechoes »

Ah yes, time. Not just time - 'free' time! It is so free people need to sacrifice their freedom in exchange for curated experience and long battery life to get it. What they are unable to sacrifice, though, is convenience and pleasure. And Touch ID.

When freedom is at stake, some may sacrifice their lives on its altar, but worker bees will never sacrifice USB-C displays.

Yes, I am a zealot.

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