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Possible association between tattoos and lymphoma

lunduniversity.lu.se

91–100 of 207 posts

Re: Possible association between tattoos and lymphoma

#91
I would believe those results if they had published the methods (including everything they were correcting for, etc) BEFORE starting the data collection.

Otherwise I can argue that once you have all the data it is feasible to test many different combinations of variable corrections, age groupings, tattoo sizes, etc. until you find one scenario (the one you publish) with "statistical significance".

I had a quick glance at the article and the authors do not discuss any multiple testing correction method. The lack of such discussion makes me think that they were unaware of such problem and they tested multiple hypothesis until they found one "statistically significant". This is called cherry picking. https://xkcd.com/882/

I can think of two alternatives to the cherry picking hypothesis that might make me believe their conclusion will hold:

1. They had the statistical analysis plan decided from the beginning up to the smallest detail. They followed it by the book and they found the published result without exploring anything else, so there were no other hypothesis to correct for multiple testing for. This is feasible, but seeing the significance and effect size it seems this would be a very risky study design, since the effect size they see is rather small. Since it's so risky, I find it unlikely.

2. The result holds regardless of forcing minor variations to all those corrections. This means there would probably exist a simpler analysis plan, without so many corrections, that presents compatible results with the published plan. This is unlikely in my opinion, because if that were the case I would expect a simpler story in the paper, or a larger effect size.

Maybe an independent group of researchers believes in these results and decides to reproduce the study to confirm it. If this happens I hope they follow the same statistical analysis plan published in this paper, and I hope they can publish their findings in the same journal, even if they can't get a "statistical significance".

Re: Possible association between tattoos and lymphoma

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Injecting yourself with something that has proven cancer causing chemicals cannot be harmless if course

It certainly can - I think artificial sweeteners are great examples. There are experimental studies that show that artificial sweeteners can cause cancer in animal studies, but as of yet there's no clear evidence of that showing up for any definable population in the real world[1]. Chemicals linked to cancer (or other conditions) are cause for concern! It's important to note & track these things. But the dose makes t…

You are talking about non cancer causing chemicals to humans. The definition of a cancer causing chemicals is it will cause cancer. If it's a small dose it will not be easily detectable that doesn't mean it doesn't cause harm.

Re: Possible association between tattoos and lymphoma

#93
post #45

If the correlation is proven true then that’s obviously terrible, but I’m in my mid 40s now, tattoo-less, and one of my biggest regrets is not getting a couple tattoos when I was younger. I feel like doing it now looks like a midlife crisis type thing. I always wanted one of those Thai tattoos where they manually tap tap tap the design into your skin with a mallet.

You should do what you want. That said, my friend with the most tattoos, basically every part of his body, arms, legs. Maybe his face and head don't have tattoos. When I told him I was thinking about getting one he told me "don't do it".

A heavily tattooed acquaintance told me the same thing when I was younger, and now that I've got several of my own I understand what he meant by it. He could tell my "thinking about getting one" was superficial, which is not a great starting point for getting inked. If you really want a tattoo you're going to get it regardless of any advice, so by telling me not to get one, he was trying to save me from what was (back then) potentially a bad decision.

Re: Possible association between tattoos and lymphoma

#94
post #64

I’m not surprised — tattoo inks are not regulated and the colors are often formed with toxic compounds (e.g. copper). Then the needle avoids the protective barrier provided by the skin. Ironically, while working on a drug program that involved intradermal injection, we needed to tattoo the injection site so we could find it later. The FDA was very demanding that both the procedure and more importantly to them the dye…

Can you reveal what was safe to use as a tattoo ink?

Please don‘t tattoo your guinea pig.

Re: Possible association between tattoos and lymphoma

#95

If the correlation is proven true then that’s obviously terrible, but I’m in my mid 40s now, tattoo-less, and one of my biggest regrets is not getting a couple tattoos when I was younger. I feel like doing it now looks like a midlife crisis type thing. I always wanted one of those Thai tattoos where they manually tap tap tap the design into your skin with a mallet.

Have you seen the blurry mess a tattoo turns into 30 years later? You made a reasonable choice.

Have you seen the mess the human body turns into over the same time span?

Re: Possible association between tattoos and lymphoma

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure "people with negative msgs in tattoos died 14 years earlier" sheds light for me on the TFA. TFA has a more direct, physical, concern - it starts from a well-known, that tattoo ink ends up in lymph nodes, and it does a statistical analysis showing there's a significant statistical result in lymphoma occurence. I think people with negative tattoos dying younger reduces the # of people with tattoos who get…

It shows the existence of some very strong confounding mechanisms.

There's certainly plenty of those! :)

I doubt they intended to communicate something that general, and if they did, I doubt they meant to pick one that would reinforce the conclusion.

Re: Possible association between tattoos and lymphoma

#97
post #50

Genetic predispositions, obesity and a lot of other factors also play a role in the risk of developing lymphoma. From the article: "we found that the risk of developing lymphoma was 21 percent higher among those who were tattooed" Let's put this number into context, because "percent of increased risk" is always something I struggle to picture" "Overall, the chance that a man will develop NHL in his lifetime is about…

> NHL

  Non-Hodgkin lymphoma (NHL) is a cancer that starts in lymphocytes, a type of white blood cell that helps fight infection. Lymphocytes are found in the bloodstream but also in the lymph system and throughout the body.

Re: Possible association between tattoos and lymphoma

#98
post #85
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> barred from investigating the effect on humans Wait they're legally prevented from investigating tattoo inks? Why?

Tattoo ink is not a food or a drug and is not intended to treat or diagnose any disease or medical condition.

Whereas in South Korea only licensed medical professionals are allowed to open tattoo parlors:

> The Korean Ministry of Health and Welfare considers the act of tattooing similar to medical procedures and deemed they should therefore only be performed by a professional with a medical license.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattooing_in_South_Korea

Re: Possible association between tattoos and lymphoma

#100
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tattoo ink is not a food or a drug and is not intended to treat or diagnose any disease or medical condition.

Whereas in South Korea only licensed medical professionals are allowed to open tattoo parlors: > The Korean Ministry of Health and Welfare considers the act of tattooing similar to medical procedures and deemed they should therefore only be performed by a professional with a medical license. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattooing_in_South_Korea

I mean, I’m glad that’s not the case
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