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What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

nrk.no

191–200 of 264 posts

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#191
post #189

Just in case why people are wondering why cutting of internet for an arctic island is a big deal. What many might not know is that Svalbard is home to the northernmost satellite station in the world. It is just one of two stations that can communicate with polar orbiting satellites each day. ESA and NASA as well as other civilian organisations are present there, and the station communicates with well over a hundred s…

To be pedantic - most places on Earth can get a contact with a polar orbiting satellite at least once or twice per day, however the number of contacts per day increases the closer you get to the poles. Svalbard is far enough north that you get lots of contacts per day. I forget the exact number and I don't have STK open in front of me to simulate it, but from memory it's something like 15 or so contacts per day for a…

Thx, that was a huge brain fart, I meant each revolution.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#192
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to problems with moral hazard, insurance generally doesn’t cover anything illegal done intentionally or due to extreme (willful) recklessness/negligence. Hard to argue that wasn’t what the fisherman was doing at the point he was sawing a cable in half using a saw he’s already dredged up several times.

He apparently didn't realize that it was important: "is in his 60s, has fished since he was 15. The courts were told that he had no formal training but picked his fishing grounds by experience" "he saw a chart showing a line running through his fishing area with the handwritten notation “abandonne.” He concluded his underwater nemesis was fair game and when he snagged it again in June of 2006, he pulled it up and sli…

Poor guy. He might be an idiot for just slicing some cable he dredged up, but possibly had neither the education nor the knowledge to understand what he was doing.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#193

Just in case why people are wondering why cutting of internet for an arctic island is a big deal. What many might not know is that Svalbard is home to the northernmost satellite station in the world. It is just one of two stations that can communicate with polar orbiting satellites each day. ESA and NASA as well as other civilian organisations are present there, and the station communicates with well over a hundred s…

Correction: not one per day, one per revolution. Since the satellites go from north to south pole while the earth is spinning, the polar areas is the inly the pass each time.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#194
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Starlink solves utilizing the laser links between satellites.

You're grossly underestimating the bandwidth needs of the site. You're not going to replace a cluster of fiber optic cables with Starlink.

We're talking backup vs. primary. Of course the backup is not going to be as good.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#195
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to problems with moral hazard, insurance generally doesn’t cover anything illegal done intentionally or due to extreme (willful) recklessness/negligence. Hard to argue that wasn’t what the fisherman was doing at the point he was sawing a cable in half using a saw he’s already dredged up several times.

The “moral hazard” argument is completely bullshit as usual, there's no moral hazard if there's consequences besides the damage, and it's always the case when doing something illegal (there's a fine, or jail time for instance). But insurances' business is about finding reasons not to pay, so it's not surprising at all…

Imagine a scenario - a restaurant owner is insured for $3 million dollars for the business and structure (not atypical).

Business isn’t doing great. The place catches on fire and burns down. All the business assets and the structure are lost, so the business needs to shut down.

If arson wasn’t an exclusion;

1) why would anyone look closer to figure out if it was intentional or not? Assuming no one was injured. Who has the incentive to do all the investigation?

2) even if they got caught and convicted, in California the jail penalty is only 3 years for structure arson. $3mln is a hell of a payday for three years in jail, and without the exclusion, they’d still be entitled to the payout.

3) what if they had a buddy do it, and the evidence they conspired wasn’t strong enough to get a criminal conviction - but enough for civil court. Or civil discovery would uncover evidence, where a criminal investigation may not.

Same dynamic plays out for life insurance, vehicle, personal liability, home insurance, etc.

Moral hazard is a real issue for any insurance, as knowledge that a payout can come due to a circumstance someone can intentionally trigger definitely changes the odds of those circumstances occurring. In some cases to the point of strongly encouraging or even outright warping the market so those circumstances occur regularly.

Without insurance, the owner is the one who bears the costs directly no matter what, so we’d likely have a lot fewer buildings burning down!

People would in general be a lot more careful, just like they’d be more careful driving if every car has a giant knife embedded in the center of the steering wheel instead of having airbags. A lot more lives would be ruined though when being careful isn’t enough eh? Or people get overwhelmed.

And of course insurance companies have a strong incentive to not pay out illegitimate claims. They’d go bankrupt if they did anything else!

Sometimes (or often, depending on your POV) they try to not pay out legitimate claims, which is why documentation and legal representation is important too - and why it’s such a heavily regulated industry pretty much everywhere.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#196
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how satellites work.

Starlink can act as a backup for the ground station utilizing the laser links.

Maybe just use Starlink from the satellites, so we don't rely on a specific ground station.

Starlink Ground Station Network is global, spread in many different countries and look more resilient than a single one.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#197
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He apparently didn't realize that it was important: "is in his 60s, has fished since he was 15. The courts were told that he had no formal training but picked his fishing grounds by experience" "he saw a chart showing a line running through his fishing area with the handwritten notation “abandonne.” He concluded his underwater nemesis was fair game and when he snagged it again in June of 2006, he pulled it up and sli…

Poor guy. He might be an idiot for just slicing some cable he dredged up, but possibly had neither the education nor the knowledge to understand what he was doing.

The willful negligence is not asking someone or saying something before slicing into an expensive looking underwater cable with a saw - which would take some time, preparation, and persistence.

And if it was actually abandoned, what was cutting it going to do for him anyway? Unless he removed the cable, he was going to keep snagging it in different areas.

This isn’t like cutting a corner pulling out of a parking lot and running over some flowers. This is like digging with a backhoe in front of your business to install some irrigation, and getting irritated at all those pesky cables and stuff underground. And rather than talking to someone about it, ripping them all out because ‘it didn’t look like anyone was using them’.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#198
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder if car liability insurance covers the damages you can cause if you drive recklessly or even purposely hit someone's car

They do, they'll just come after you for the money and will not cover your costs since you acted reckless. Where I live this is the minimum you MUST insure yourself for and they pay out no matter what (to the other party). If you acted in bad faith they will come for your money. If it's an accident or out of your control they pay the damages you caused for you and you are fine. Since everyone is insured by law what u…

Similar here: auto insurers lobbied to exclude coverage for damage to your vehicle if you were under the influence or alcohol or drugs.

I guess people may ethically agree to that but did premiums go down? Of course not.

A very profitable move for the insurance companies to provide less insurance without handing over the savings.

And it even applies to “anyone you let drive your vehicle” so everyone is supposed to be a drug recognition expert, which is even controversial amongst those that are supposed to be the “experts”.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#199
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're grossly underestimating the bandwidth needs of the site. You're not going to replace a cluster of fiber optic cables with Starlink.

We're talking backup vs. primary. Of course the backup is not going to be as good.

Starlink has an upload speed between 5 and 20 Mbps. The Svalbard cable is a 10Gbps link. It's still a major difference.

That said apparently they do have a satellite backup, just not through Starlink.

Re: What the damaged Svalbard cable looked like

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starlink can act as a backup for the ground station utilizing the laser links.

Maybe just use Starlink from the satellites, so we don't rely on a specific ground station. Starlink Ground Station Network is global, spread in many different countries and look more resilient than a single one.

That would require replacing all the satellites with new ones capable of doing that, which doesn't seem feasible. Starlink also doesn't have great coverage of the polar regions.
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