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Chickens in Trees

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Re: Chickens in Trees

#61

Post by alt227 »

margor wrote: post #37
globular-toast wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot more people would be veggie if they had to kill the animals themselves. You just wouldn't do it unless you were really hungry, which I doubt anyone on this forum has experienced even once.

Sorry to break your bubble, but this is how people normally live on countrysides / small villages, at least in my country. Killing livestock animals is everyday thing and no one bats an eye. Hell, even killing new born kittens / puppies is considered by some normal thing, if they breed uncontrolled (even if they could just... castrate / neuter them [not sure which is the right word for it, I'm not native]). After all…

Yep fully agree. I live in a small village near a country estate and lots of the people here kill and pluck their own foul, including myself. The ones that dont, have no issue with it.

When there is a shoot on the estate we request some of the birds and then through the season we regularly come home from work to find braces of dead pheasants hanging on our front door. We pluck them and then roast or make stews out of them and they are delicious.

It is common to walk through the village after a shoot and see dead birds hanging from most of the doors. Nobody complains or thinks it is strange, in fact everybody looks forward to the free meat!

Re: Chickens in Trees

#62

Post by salad-tycoon »

globular-toast wrote: post #48
margor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break your bubble, but this is how people normally live on countrysides / small villages, at least in my country. Killing livestock animals is everyday thing and no one bats an eye. Hell, even killing new born kittens / puppies is considered by some normal thing, if they breed uncontrolled (even if they could just... castrate / neuter them [not sure which is the right word for it, I'm not native]). After all…

I've been in such communities and they do bat an eye actually. If people enjoyed it then rich western people would be doing it for fun. Funny that I don't see the "kill your own goat" experience being sold in tourist packages.

Hobby farming tourism is definitely a thing. Many well earning organizations host immersive events that include butchering classes.

Joel Salatin. Farmstead Meatsmith. Justin Rhodes. Etc.

I guess it depends on your definition of fun but rarely are people learning as an immediate need for survival.

Re: Chickens in Trees

#63

Post by alt227 »

globular-toast wrote: post #45
chrisco255 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even 3 generations ago, it was incredibly common for people to slaughter their own farm animals. My grandmother was an old farm woman, raised in the time before refrigeration. She'd slaughter and pluck her own chickens without a second thought. It's entirely a modern phenomenon of global distribution and modern conditioning that lead you to that conclusion. Some animals evolved to be prey, and that is why they ha…

Yeah, I used to perform similar mental gymnastics too. Interestingly, it's very similar to the behaviour of addicts. Unfortunately, the way poor people lived 3 generations ago has absolutely nothing to do with how fat, rich people live today. What's next? No vaccines? No pasteurisation? This line of reasoning is a very slippery slope. Hunting is different for a couple of reasons. First, you're almost certainly talkin…

> Nobody is doing the slaughter for fun, though. It's always guns or dogs doing the dirty work. Funny that.

But also to provide. The estate near us has shoots every season and the fowl which is killed is given to the local residents. Lots of local poorer people really look forward to shoot season because they can pack their freezer with lots of free meat. I speak to lots of older folks in the area and they say this is the way it has been done for hundreds of years.

Re: Chickens in Trees

#64

Post by pvaldes »

tomcam wrote: post #34

I made the mistake of buying chickens as livestock. I fell in love with the day-old chicks the moment we got into the car to take them home. Plan was that 1/3 would become food, 1/3 would die of disease, and the remainder would lay eggs. Unfortunately I lost my taste for chicken. We lost 1/3 due to predators, not disease, despite building a $20,000 chicken run. I was depressed for months. And I have been through some…

Losing chicken to predators is normal and according to plan. Fortunately they can be multiplied really fast so... If the fox cubs had a good dinner once on a blue moon is not the end of the world or something to be depressed about it.

Re: Chickens in Trees

#65

Post by pvaldes »

actionfromafar wrote: post #38
margor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break your bubble, but this is how people normally live on countrysides / small villages, at least in my country. Killing livestock animals is everyday thing and no one bats an eye. Hell, even killing new born kittens / puppies is considered by some normal thing, if they breed uncontrolled (even if they could just... castrate / neuter them [not sure which is the right word for it, I'm not native]). After all…

Why would any of that refute "a lot more would be vegetarian"?

Well, from a philosophical point of view, vegetarian movement is unfair for the plants

Plants that are responsible of lots and lots of human well-being and as life beings deserve to be treated with a similar respect that we use with other organisms.

Incidentally is also bad for human health

Yes, it is. Those articles that claim that you can live on a strict vegetarian diet without any bad consequences for your health are either lying, incomplete or based in pseudoscience. Is basically a religious movement.

Re: Chickens in Trees

#66

Post by hulitu »

globular-toast wrote: post #48
margor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break your bubble, but this is how people normally live on countrysides / small villages, at least in my country. Killing livestock animals is everyday thing and no one bats an eye. Hell, even killing new born kittens / puppies is considered by some normal thing, if they breed uncontrolled (even if they could just... castrate / neuter them [not sure which is the right word for it, I'm not native]). After all…

I've been in such communities and they do bat an eye actually. If people enjoyed it then rich western people would be doing it for fun. Funny that I don't see the "kill your own goat" experience being sold in tourist packages.

> Funny that I don't see the "kill your own goat" experience being sold in tourist packages.

Some goats can kill you.

Re: Chickens in Trees

#67

Post by revert_to_test »

b112 wrote: post #57
adrianN wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three generations ago it was also common to beat your children. I’m not sure that we should base moral arguments on what was common in the past.

No, it was not. It was common to spank your children, out of care and love, when they did things dangerous to themselves or others, and sometimes a strap or switch when something truly horrific was done. We now view this as wrong, but that wasn't beating them. Yes, some idiots did beat their children, or hit their children out of anger. That doesn't mean it was common .

From what I observe, although spanking is described as basically harmless, not everyone who lived through it see it as something that improved their lives. Even if it was administered by well-meaning, loving parents.

Re: Chickens in Trees

#68

Post by margor »

actionfromafar wrote: post #38
margor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break your bubble, but this is how people normally live on countrysides / small villages, at least in my country. Killing livestock animals is everyday thing and no one bats an eye. Hell, even killing new born kittens / puppies is considered by some normal thing, if they breed uncontrolled (even if they could just... castrate / neuter them [not sure which is the right word for it, I'm not native]). After all…

Why would any of that refute "a lot more would be vegetarian"?

Because killing farm animals is considered a norm in almost all places who had done that since generations.

If you would be surrounded by chickens, livestock and other farm animals and watching them getting butchered was your daily bread as a child, why would you reconsider when you would grow up? It literally put food on your table, and besides home grown farm animals taste A LOT better (speaking from experience, but never grown them myself, any meat product I buy from the Walmart alikes tastes much worse).

Its only when you never witnessed death of any kind that you become so sensitive to it. Once it becomes normal (of course, I talk about farm animals here only) it's really hard to see advocates for vegetarianism as some sort of zealots.

And personally? What's the difference if they die of natural causes vs. just butchering them when the time is right? If you raised them ethically and they were generally happy, then for these animals its just... How it would end anyway? If you compare that to industrial farming, and if it was the only way to get meat sure I would consider being vege instead, its horrible how they are kept and treated. But for my own raised animals? Its a cycle of life.

Re: Chickens in Trees

#69

Post by vertnerd »

We keep chickens, but I rarely find them in trees. We also keep a heritage breed of turkey, the Royal Palm, and those guys love to sleep in the trees.

If you ever decide to start keeping chickens or turkeys, you will discover that most of the things you thought you knew about birds are wrong. They are fascinating creatures.

Re: Chickens in Trees

#70

Post by margor »

globular-toast wrote: post #48
margor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break your bubble, but this is how people normally live on countrysides / small villages, at least in my country. Killing livestock animals is everyday thing and no one bats an eye. Hell, even killing new born kittens / puppies is considered by some normal thing, if they breed uncontrolled (even if they could just... castrate / neuter them [not sure which is the right word for it, I'm not native]). After all…

I've been in such communities and they do bat an eye actually. If people enjoyed it then rich western people would be doing it for fun. Funny that I don't see the "kill your own goat" experience being sold in tourist packages.

I think there is a shade of grey between enjoying it and never doing because animals are another living being that don't deserve it.

If you are doing it as part of putting a good tasting food on the table, I would say no, no one bats an eye, but I suppose they don't enjoy the process too - it's messy process and requiers some safety considerations too like making sure your meat doesn't have any parasites.

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