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Apple's M4 has reportedly adopted the ARMv9 architecture

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Re: Apple's M4 has reportedly adopted the ARMv9 architecture

#211
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still going through the same telemetry action, it just omits the actual character you typed. And yes, it is character by character. That collection (eg, the timestamp you hit the character, channel/person it was to, etc) is the inefficiency causing your typing to slow. If it was a straight text box that they polled contents of _occasionally_ or after you hit 'send', it would be a much better user experience.

...do you have any source verifying this? Setting aside how insane of an issue it'd be network-wise/privacy-wise/etc, this is like a day one "debounce the call" fix. I'm not even saying I doubt you, I'm just curious how you ascertained this exact behavior.

Mainly this was just myself getting irritated at MS Teams and trying to figure out what it was doing. It was a couple years ago and my current company doesn't use teams, thankfully, so I can't really see if its still valid.

From what I remember..

There are files on the disk that get updated/overwritten with pulls from the server every time it launches. Somewhere in AppData I think. A few of these are config files (with lots of interesting looking settings, including beta features).

One of the config entries specifies a telemetry endpoint (which, you _could_ figure out with a network tracing tool but there are a ton of MS telemetry endpoints your machine is probably talking to. Best to just grab the one explicitly being used from the config like this). I forget the full name of the setting but the name pretty clearly indicates its for telemetry, and the file is clearly a config file. If you can't find it just by browsing the structure, try a multi-file search tool and look for 'telemetry' or URL/hostnames.

You can't really change the value on disk and make it just take effect from there, since it gets downloaded from the server and overwritten before Teams loads. There might be some tricks you can do locally to persist the change but nothing seemed to work for me. You could override response from server via mitmproxy but that requires finding where it comes across the wire at launch time and then building a script/config to replace it.

Anyway, you can block that telemetry endpoint from a firewall and see your memory bloat. Or you can intercept that endpoint in any mitm proxy. I went with this [mitmproxy](https://mitmproxy.org/). From there you can capture the content it sends to the endpoint, or even change the response the server sends (Teams just seems to expect a 200 code back).

The telemetry data itself is some kind of streaming event format. I think I even found documentation on the structure on some microsoft website, so its likely a reused format.

It's pretty straightforward.

I couldn't spend too much time on it and now it's not something I even use, but some cool things you might want to try if you dive deeper into this:

- Overwrite the config file as it returns from the server, to turn on EU data protection, change various functionality you're not supposed to, or flip some feature flags.

- Figure out if there's a feature flag or even other overwrite to fully disable the metrics so they aren't even collected, from anywhere in the app.

- Intercept telemetry, return an 'OK' response and drop the data from telemetry, or maybe document what they collect more definitively if you think there's interest somewhere. This keeps your privacy but doesn't really do anything for performance.

- Interfere with the data before actually returning it, maybe try playing with event contents and channel/user indicators. Microsoft probably won't like this if they notice, but it's unlikely they'll even notice.

Re: Apple's M4 has reportedly adopted the ARMv9 architecture

#212
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL, you wanna try it on my ~2 generations old Core i5 corporate laptop. Sometimes, the first steps of drawing the calendar view are roughly the same speed as me drawing it in Paint. Maybe someone should normalise giving developers crappy laptops to develop on. (Has anyone done a deep dive into Teams to explain what on earth is going on? I mean, if VSCode can be fast despite its underlying architecture, surely someth…

>> Maybe someone should normalise giving developers crappy laptops to develop on. Then the developers will complain the hardware is unusable to do their job even though that this was a supercomputer back in the day. Then you say "No, it's the software please fix it."

The problem is, it's not their software. No control over Slack, Outlook etc

Re: Apple's M4 has reportedly adopted the ARMv9 architecture

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like something people just made up, seeing as Apple didn't use ARM for something like a decade or two after that. However, Apple basically commissioned ARMv8 in the first place to develop the A/M chips, so that presumably helps.

Apple cofounded ARM for use in the Newton product line; they released new Newton products from 1993-97 and discontinued them in 1998. They then used ARM again for the iPod, released in 2001.

They didn't design the iPod ARM SoC though, nor the ones in iPhones for quite some time, and the microcontrollers in Macs for power management and such were not ARM. (I mean, some of them might've been, but the one I'm thinking of was SH or something.)

Re: Apple's M4 has reportedly adopted the ARMv9 architecture

#214

The most incredible thing about the new iPads is that even with the crazy fast M4 chip MS Teams manages to crawl to a halt. Clearly it takes all the engineering skills of the largest and most valuable software company in the world to make text entry go at about 1 fps on a chip as powerful as the M4.

Every character you type results in some sort of hit to their telemetry server. It will include the actual letter you typed, if you or your org are not configured to be in EU. With their EU configuration option (pulled from server every launch) it will only report the fact that you typed _something_. Now if that's not fun enough, their telemetry also covers mouse movements. Go ahead and watch your CPU as you spin you…

Is the telemetry really that big of a load? Having a persistent connection and sending data over it is pretty standard for games going back decades, even AOL instant messenger had this feature for typing.

Re: Apple's M4 has reportedly adopted the ARMv9 architecture

#215
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS Teams is by far the worst piece of software I’ve ever used. It is ungodly slow and it just gets slower the more you use it. I believe it is actually hitting the server to update the online/away status light for every single message in a conversation. If you turn off all the status update stuff in the settings then the software speeds up dramatically. Another thing you can do is find the folder where it caches ever…

hmm I use teams daily all day for work and don't have these issues, maybe your org messed something up?

I use it exclusively as a progressive web app on Linux and it's not particularly slow, but it is buggy as all hell. Easily the worst rich text editing experience of any chat client I've ever used. Teams is without a doubt the worst piece of software I'm required to use on a daily basis

Re: Apple's M4 has reportedly adopted the ARMv9 architecture

#216
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every character you type results in some sort of hit to their telemetry server. It will include the actual letter you typed, if you or your org are not configured to be in EU. With their EU configuration option (pulled from server every launch) it will only report the fact that you typed _something_. Now if that's not fun enough, their telemetry also covers mouse movements. Go ahead and watch your CPU as you spin you…

Is the telemetry really that big of a load? Having a persistent connection and sending data over it is pretty standard for games going back decades, even AOL instant messenger had this feature for typing.

It is on mobile.

Re: Apple's M4 has reportedly adopted the ARMv9 architecture

#217
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they’re running a keystroke logger and masquerading it as “telemetry”? That should be outlawed. It’s not a drafts feature, it’s not an online word processor, it’s just a straight up keystroke logger.

It is outlawed, in the EU.

Great. It needs to be outlawed in America.

Re: Apple's M4 has reportedly adopted the ARMv9 architecture

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, I think that the reliable update cadence in modern electronics means that people should generally all but ignore future product roadmaps. When you actually need to get a new device, just get whatever the up-to-date thing is. OK, ok, I suppose that it's reasonable to check the rumor sites to see if you should delay by a month or two. But not any longer than that.

It's much harder with PCs, where you can get, for instance, new Thinkpad's with anything from 11th gen Core i all the way to new Core Ultras. And, now, ARMs as well...

I was inline to buy a 128GB M3 MAX, know that I know the M4 exists and already shipped in the iPad, it lets me know that the whole M4 pipeline has already started and what the perf numbers are, absolutely means I will be waiting. I survived yesterday without it, I can survive tomorrow. And now I can budget in the AMD Epyc bridge that covers that span.

I think Apple has been pretty good about hitting the right cadence with processor perf increases. They are making up for lost Intel time. The M6 is going to make us loose our minds. Apple is going to bring back "this is a munition" ads.

Re: Apple's M4 has reportedly adopted the ARMv9 architecture

#220
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I’ve read previously, Apple has a special licensing deal already as they were part of founding Arm, although I don’t know if there’s any details on exactly how that works.

That seems like something people just made up, seeing as Apple didn't use ARM for something like a decade or two after that. However, Apple basically commissioned ARMv8 in the first place to develop the A/M chips, so that presumably helps.

>That seems like something people just made up,

Yes. Watching it unfold, the whole misinformation self spread, and back into its loop is both interesting and tiring. It took months and some hard work to camp down Unified Memory being SRAM and something special. But this ARM deal? 5 years and counting.

It is two point;

Apple has an architectural license, which somehow became a "special deal" as if they are the only one doing it. They are not and even the Amphere Computing has one.

Apple was the part of the founder of ARM, and somehow this gave people impression they have a "special deal".

And had hajile not step up and provided the ARMv9 being a superset of ARMv8 etc etc I would have to spend some time to look up the detail of superset just to stamp out these type of non-sense. ( Each ARMv8+ and v9 have way too many features and optional extensions I dont even remember which is which )

And this is not the first time YouTuber Vadim Yuryev gave something out that is completely wrong.

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