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Scrum's Built-In 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' Against Criticism

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Re: Scrum's Built-In 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' Against Criticism

#61

Post by Arnt »

lupusreal wrote: post #32
itronitron wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> a well-thought out implementation can save tons of time I think there is a bias for many developers to feel like they are not doing anything unless their actively producing/editing code. Once I realized that I could just state in a standup that I was 'investigating' and 'researching' the best approach to XYZ then I felt a lot less resistance to the process.

Almost all standups I've been in have abused the "investigating loophole" egregiously. There is only investigation and completion. Day 1 through N: "I'm investigating X" Day N+1: "I checked in X and am now investigating Y"

I've worked somewhere where that would be like this...

Days 1-N: Investigating. N+1: "I've made a WIP PR, who's free to look at it with me?". N+2 would often be "we've merged" but it could go differently.

The whole process made a lot of sense to me. I like Scrum.

Re: Scrum's Built-In 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' Against Criticism

#62

Post by RajT88 »

I view the arguments about dev process to be similar to arguments about parenting. There is some consensus that having some structure is generally better than having none, and the specific merits of different structure and process are subjective.

i.e. Having parents is generally better than having none.

Re: Scrum's Built-In 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' Against Criticism

#63

Post by lenkite »

torginus wrote: post #21

Imo the fundamental failure of Scrum as a planning methodology stems from the fact that it gives user requirements ('user stories') to developers and expects them to translate them to a technical implementation almost as an afterthought that's barely acknowledged in the framework. Most of us work on huge codebases with tons of baggage and hundreds or thousands of engineer-years invested into it. Implementing a featur…

This is why any feature that is not simple should have a "Feature X Proposal" which is a task that is created in the planning. Development is only done in the subsequent sprints after "Feature X Proposal" has been completed, discussed and reviewed by the team.

Re: Scrum's Built-In 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' Against Criticism

#65

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

The main reason why scrum is broken is because companies completely fail to adopt the foundation over which is built, that is the Agile manifesto (and they claim to be agile!): https://agilemanifesto.org/

The first line states: Individuals and interactions over processes and tools

But whenever scrum is involved, process is given priority.

Anyway, design your process for your needs.

Re: Scrum's Built-In 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' Against Criticism

#66

Post by pydry »

proc0 wrote: post #52
pydry wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you boil scrum down to that then there is no scrum because scrum didn't invent iterative development or retros. It invented a bureaucratic way to cargo cult them though.

My understanding is that it was always about creating a kind of protocol for engineers to collaborate better. and scrum just packaged those concepts so they could be implemented by anybody. The bureaucracy happens because it's usually not owned by the contributing team and instead orgs like to synchronize all their teams into one unified process, so it inevitably becomes "corporatized".

That's the theory. In practice it became a way to cargo cult those things with bureaucratic rituals.

This was completely the fault of scrum for being highly proscriptive about the process. It's like teaching somebody to program with rote learning or something. It just fundamentally doesn't work because the core of the process requires human ingenuity, creativity and freedom to work and by having a rote process those things are inhibited.

Re: Scrum's Built-In 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' Against Criticism

#67

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

torginus wrote: post #40
itronitron wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> a well-thought out implementation can save tons of time I think there is a bias for many developers to feel like they are not doing anything unless their actively producing/editing code. Once I realized that I could just state in a standup that I was 'investigating' and 'researching' the best approach to XYZ then I felt a lot less resistance to the process.

You can tell that, but if you are 'researching' during the implementation phase, how the hell did you give an estimate on the task? I'm not blaming you, I'm just pointing out Scrum is ridiculous

You could do the reverse, timeboxing it. Goal being to avoid spending excessive time on the task.

Having a well defined amount of time for a research task makes sense, the business decides how much they want to spend.

I'm against estimating every task, but I definitely provide a ballpark idea when a project will be delivered. Keeping a research task in check is important for myself too, otherwise I can go on for weeks.

Re: Scrum's Built-In 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' Against Criticism

#68

Post by MarkMarine »

lupusreal wrote: post #34
MarkMarine wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oy. Why add politics to this. Maybe just stay on topic.

Scrum is an ideology, and is a method of managing people to boot. It is politics.

Politics is just deciding what to do with shared resources, an ideology informs people’s choices about what to do with shared resources, managing people doesn’t really have anything to do with scum or politics, I think you’re missing the mark.

More to the point, you’re picking something more divisive than scrum and adding your thoughts about the divisive topic to add to a discussion about scrum, it doesn’t add to the conversation it just ratchets up the conflict. Take it to Facebook.

Re: Scrum's Built-In 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' Against Criticism

#69

Post by lupusreal »

MarkMarine wrote: post #68
lupusreal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scrum is an ideology, and is a method of managing people to boot. It is politics.

Politics is just deciding what to do with shared resources, an ideology informs people’s choices about what to do with shared resources, managing people doesn’t really have anything to do with scum or politics, I think you’re missing the mark. More to the point, you’re picking something more divisive than scrum and adding your thoughts about the divisive topic to add to a discussion about scrum, it doesn’t add to the…

> Politics is just deciding what to do with shared resources

Sure, as good a definition already.

> managing people doesn’t really have anything to do with scum or politics

People, and particular the labor of people, is a resource! Managing it is inherently political.

Re: Scrum's Built-In 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' Against Criticism

#70

Post by pseudalopex »

lukol wrote: post #27
baq wrote: post #16

Writing about Scrum, regardless if it's praise, complaints, references, howtos or just plain descriptions without referencing the agile manifesto is kinda... missing the point? The content of the article is good, but perhaps quoting the founding principles of agile would make it even better? Implementing Scrum (including org-specific adaptations) without understanding the idea behind 'agile' is what a PHB does. https…

This. Scrum is just a way of operationalizing the basic principles behind the Agile Manifesto while putting them in a way that can be communicated and understood outside of dev/product organizations. No Scrum Master/Agile Coach/Product Owner, etc. worth his/her salt will tell you to slavishly stick to every piece of Scrum as long as you get the basics (see the manifesto) right. It is, however, a somewhat useful tool…

> Scrum is just a way of operationalizing the basic principles behind the Agile Manifesto while putting them in a way that can be communicated and understood outside of dev/product organizations.

Scrum in practice is processes and tools over individuals and interactions.

> No Scrum Master/Agile Coach/Product Owner, etc. worth his/her salt will tell you to slavishly stick to every piece of Scrum as long as you get the basics (see the manifesto) right.

This is the no true Scotsman fallacy.

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