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DuckDuckGo was down

duckduckgo.com

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Re: DuckDuckGo was down

#401

Post by iamthirsty »

miloignis wrote: post #390
gregw134 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure kagi is a bing wrapper too, although they blend in some other datasets.

Kagi's main results come from Google actually. (edit: see https://help.kagi.com/kagi/why-kagi/kagi-vs-google.html - Kagi really shows how good Google could be, since it's mostly using the Google index and then doing user-friendly things instead of user-unfriendly things on top)

While I'm not disagreeing that Kagi's main results from Google, the source you linked doesn't specifically say that. Just says:

> "Heck, it even enables Kagi to exist!"

> "We’re grateful to have access to Google's search technology and infrastructure for Kagi."

So I wonder what the actual results mix is. Like I said, could be mainly from Google.

Edit: Added additional quote.

Re: DuckDuckGo was down

#403

Post by tombert »

autoexec wrote: post #399
tombert wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the parent's comment was that strange of a way of characterizing it. Yes, they block other tracking scripts, but since they have an explicit exception for tracking from Microsoft, it's not a complete stretch to say they were "tracking for MS"; I know technically it's Microsoft doing the tracking, but DDG gives them explicit permission to do so. I think that it's a distinction without much of a differenc…

Kagi has its own issues. At least with DDG you could search without logging in and your searches weren't directly tied to your name/address/credit card. Ads are best handled with ad blockers anyway. This rando's comments ( https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1bmubkd/thoughts_a... ) on the filter bubble problem seems like a reasonable concern too. It's best for a search engine to know nothing about you and just…

The privacy vs. anonymous thing is fair, and I have some issues with that, and I wish it were a bit more clear on what exactly that means. Even if Vlad's example of "parents knowing what you're doing but still respecting privacy" thing is true, it's not like I want my parents know I'm looking at porn, even if they don't know what kind of porn I'm looking at. That's something that they should address.

I still trust Kagi more than basically any free service though. There's no ads, and since they charge for search they at least have a means of making money that doesn't involve selling my data. Even if Kagi knows what I'm doing, I'm willing to accept that they're not dispensing my data quite as liberally as Google and Microsoft (and apparently DDG).

Re: DuckDuckGo was down

#404

Post by barbazoo »

autoexec wrote: post #392
niutech wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically DDG is the wrapper for Bing Search, not an "independent" search company as they claim.

And Bing lifts their results from Google ( https://www.wired.com/2011/02/bing-copies-google/ ) so in the end it seems like the internet only has one search engine.

There's also Kagi

Re: DuckDuckGo was down

#405

Post by bloblaw »

autoexec wrote: post #392
niutech wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically DDG is the wrapper for Bing Search, not an "independent" search company as they claim.

And Bing lifts their results from Google ( https://www.wired.com/2011/02/bing-copies-google/ ) so in the end it seems like the internet only has one search engine.

That article is from 2011. I can imagine that in 13 years this may no longer be true.

Re: DuckDuckGo was down

#406

Post by slig »

niutech wrote: post #314
tinyhouse wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absurd. They have been doing search for so long and couldn't build their own search index? I understand it's a huge investment, and clearly for some data sources you need to create partnerships and depend on others (e.g., youtube videos). But you would think that a search engine company would invest more in this area.

Exactly. See Brave Search, they are much newer but did it right.

Brave Search feels like Google from 2008. Just works, no BS.

Re: DuckDuckGo was down

#407

Post by politelemon »

autoexec wrote: post #392
niutech wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically DDG is the wrapper for Bing Search, not an "independent" search company as they claim.

And Bing lifts their results from Google ( https://www.wired.com/2011/02/bing-copies-google/ ) so in the end it seems like the internet only has one search engine.

Makes me wonder, does this mean Bing is the Chromium or Firefox of search?

Re: DuckDuckGo was down

#409

Post by tombert »

Springtime wrote: post #397
tombert wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the parent's comment was that strange of a way of characterizing it. Yes, they block other tracking scripts, but since they have an explicit exception for tracking from Microsoft, it's not a complete stretch to say they were "tracking for MS"; I know technically it's Microsoft doing the tracking, but DDG gives them explicit permission to do so. I think that it's a distinction without much of a differenc…

>why the fuck would I believe their claims that their search engine (which is more or less a proxy for Bing) would be immune from it? The context of the news was a security researcher conducting an audit of the app. If DDG were, as the GP claimed, performing tracking on behalf of MS then it would be more concerning since there is a difference between performing tracking on behalf of a third-party company and merely e…

> The context of the news was a security researcher conducting an audit of the app. If DDG were, as the GP claimed, performing tracking on behalf of MS then it would be more concerning since there is a difference between performing tracking on behalf of a third-party company and merely excluding them from being blocked via a content blocker that most mobile browsers lack anyway.

Sorry, I'm still not entirely sure that I agree that this doesn't count as tracking on behalf of Microsoft. If their browser has an "if MSTracker then allow else doNotAllow", that still seems like it's effectively endorsing MS tracking.

That said, I agree with your criticisms on Kagi (as outlined in sister thread). It would be ideal if Kagi had some means of truly decoupling searches from accounts, but as I stated, at least Kagi charges a fee so they have a means of making money without mining and selling data.

Which Firefox fork do you use? Does it work on iPhone? I would really prefer to use something that allows me to install extensions like uBlock.

Re: DuckDuckGo was down

#410

Post by beretguy »

biglyburrito wrote: post #208
beretguy wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I knew they rely on Bing but didn’t know this much. This really makes me not want to use ddg anymore. I’m seriously considering just paying $108/year to Kagi.

You don't have to go straight to the Professional ($108/year, unlimited searches) plan. There's also the Trial (free, 100 searches one-time) and Starter ($5/month, 3600 searches per year) plans, to help you figure out if it's worth spending for the unlimited plan. Once I hit 3600 searches & was faced with the prospect of either going back to DuckDuckGo & Google to provide inferior search results -OR- paying $108/year…

I am already on $5 plan and it’s definitely worth it. I was able to find things that neither ddg nor brave could.
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