Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again • Hacker News Board

Re: Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again

#381

Post by klunger » Thu, May 23, 2024, 3:41 PM UTC

seidleroni wrote: post #110

Pulcinella wrote: post #70

Background: I taught high school science for half a decade and now I am in tech. This will never take off. One, there is no money in Ed.Tech. There is no money in Ed.Tech. There is no money in Ed.Tech. What little money there is goes to the obvious stuff like student records databases. Anything that requires an ongoing subscription fee is dead in the water. The only reason those stupid smartboards took off is because…

I understand the skepticism around AI in ed tech, and I think people have the right to be skeptical of this being portrayed as a "cure all". Saying that it is of no value because nobody will pay for it and the kids wont learn from it because they're hungry does not capture the whole picture. I was never a great student because I had trouble focusing in class, but if I had this to guide me through my homework, I belie…

Yes, this.

I am about a month away from finishing my teaching degree (math). My experience so far AND the best research is extremely clear on the following:

Kids learn best by working in small groups with other kids.

These groups need to be gently guided by adults, but they should mostly be left to do a lot of independent exploration and discussion amongst themselves. The teacher is there to prod discussion in productive directions, provide feedback, answer questions, give hints and encouragement where needed. Admittedly, AI could do certain part of the teachers job, but it can never replace a peer group.

Re: Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again

#382

Post by Log_out_ » Thu, May 23, 2024, 3:58 PM UTC

If you a innovative outlier you have nothing to fear from AI. First they came for the interns jobs and i was afraid, for i wasn't an intern.

Re: Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again

#383

Post by disqard » Thu, May 23, 2024, 4:33 PM UTC

beryilma wrote: post #148

wisty wrote: post #37

> But drawing on his experience creating Khanmigo, an AI-powered tutor, Sal makes a compelling case that AI-powered technologies will be different. That’s because we finally have a way to give every student the kind of personalized learning, support, and guidance that’s historically been out of reach for most kids in most classrooms. As Sal puts it, “Getting every student a dedicated on-call human tutor is cost prohi…

> Personalisation fails for a simple reason - people don't really want to learn. Students/people who are interested in learning a particular subject are doing just fine learning it from already available material, be it books, videos, MOOCs, etc. They may or may not use AI, but AI won't make a huge difference for these type of people. For people who are not interested in learning, AI won't do sh*t. Because the proble…

Before MOOCs, it was TV that would revolutionize education, and before that, radio was supposed to replace the need for classes/lectures.

What each of these (including the latest wave of "AI" approaches) has overlooked is that humans learn from humans, because learning is only accomplished via motivation. Creating and sustaining motivation for years is not within the scope of a program you use on a computer -- it comes from a teacher who knows how to inspire, from a classroom and home environment that reinforces the importance of learning, and from peers who also care and reinforce this culture.

I'll quote Kentaro Toyama:

"Quality primary and secondary education is a multi-year commitment whose single bottleneck is the sustained motivation of the student to climb an intellectual Everest".

Re: Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again

#384

Post by insane_dreamer » Thu, May 23, 2024, 4:40 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #223

insane_dreamer wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that teachers can use it with students. For parents who want to use it with their children, $4/month (for your entire family!) is very small compared to anything out there that you want to use to supplement your kids education (other than Khan Academy itself, which is free). Is it affordable to poor families in Bangladesh? No, but the barrier to sponsorship is low: "for $50K a year you could sponsor it fo…

> The idea is that teachers can use it with students. https://www.khanmigo.ai/pricing Yes, teachers can use it with students if they pay for it . One day it might be free for students, but it presently is not. Which is what I was pointing out to the person I originally replied to. This discussion is about Khanmigo, a subset of what Khan Academy provides, and it is not free for students (though, yes, that cost is not…

I guess we'll see what the pricing is for school districts, but I expect it to be much lower than most educational tools, again given that it's made by Khan Academy which has proven that it's not out for the money. But something's got to cover the cost of the servers--maybe school districts will find sponsors. Overall, even if only parents and teachers use it, I'd say it's a big step forward.

Re: Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again

#385

Post by ta1243 » Thu, May 23, 2024, 4:42 PM UTC

7thpower wrote: post #302

free_energy_min wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for all the detail, it’s inspiring! How did the learning lead to your first job in tech/AI?

I got into a job in corporate IT at a good company and then moved through a bunch of roles, including putting together one of our first data science/ML teams. A couple years later when I was doing product work, gpt 2 came out, so I had started working with it for fun and writing Points of View for our company about how we could leverage these technologies and what the market dynamics would looks like and implications…

Was the lack of formal education a big problem getting started with that good company? I'm pleasantly surprised your resume made it past the first line of throwing-it-out

Re: Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again

#386

Post by onlypassingthru » Thu, May 23, 2024, 4:43 PM UTC

wisty wrote: post #37

> But drawing on his experience creating Khanmigo, an AI-powered tutor, Sal makes a compelling case that AI-powered technologies will be different. That’s because we finally have a way to give every student the kind of personalized learning, support, and guidance that’s historically been out of reach for most kids in most classrooms. As Sal puts it, “Getting every student a dedicated on-call human tutor is cost prohi…

> Youtube, DVDs, video cassettes, radio lessons, and phonographs all failed to be a revolution

Hard disagree. Young people may never know the struggle, but using an old book to teach you how to build your first {$project} was a really crappy gamble back in the day. Oftentimes the results of your efforts were mediocre or just flat out sucked because you tripped over every gotcha possible.

Thanks to the pandemic and WFH, I was able to spend hours every week on Youtube watching master craftspeople from around the world teach me skills I've always wanted to learn. It's unbelievable how accessible learning a new skill is compared to even a decade ago.

Re: Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again

#387

Post by skrtskrt » Thu, May 23, 2024, 4:50 PM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #344

megaman821 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about lost Amazon tribes? Most places I have visited people have seen real quality of life improvements by having clean water, refrigeration, sewage systems and access to the internet.

This is a good point. And, most of those require civil engineers to accomplish. It's very hard to do that if you don't have a writing system, and, hence, literacy. Pre-literate societies struggle to build up scientific and mathematical knowledge because all knowledge transfer is oral.

Industrialization is like the 1800s-1900s. Not "pre-literacy".

Re: Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again

#388

Post by rramadass » Thu, May 23, 2024, 4:52 PM UTC

7thpower wrote: post #356

rramadass wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each event by itself may not be uncommon (but some like learning mathematics from absolute basics to AI/ML requirements via just Khan Academy is well-nigh impossible) but all together happening to one person which led to the claimed outcome is very very highly improbable. Real life doesn't work that way; time, energy(i.e. effort), money are all finite and wax/wane with context/environment and defines success/failure.…

Lots of people have done it. I went to college but I resent the implication that the only way to make it into one of these fields is through college. It is incredibly difficult to learn advanced math outside of an academic setting, but it is absolutely possible. Where I work we have invested in programs that take people just like me and give them an opportunity to go through a pretty rigorous 6 month program that tea…

> Lots of people have done it.

This is just a generic platitude and means nothing. Lots of people have overcome hurdles yes but not a whole lot of hurdles all at the same and over long periods of time which is what i gathered from your posts. Also as i point out it is quite hard to overcome all hurdles just by one's own efforts but you generally need some outside help whether intentional or luck.

> I went to college but I resent the implication that the only way to make it into one of these fields is through college.

You had mentioned that you were a high-school dropout earlier but are here stating that you went to college? That is a huge discrepancy and if true proves my point.

>It is incredibly difficult to learn advanced math outside of an academic setting, but it is absolutely possible.

That depends on where you are starting from, your support environment and your definition of "advanced math". For some levels you have to go to academia and study. Not everything is possible in the real world.

> Where I work we have invested in programs that take people just like me and give them an opportunity to go through a pretty rigorous 6 month program that teaches them how to develop software, work in a corporate environment, etc.

This just proves my point that you generally need outside support/help/luck to overcome really difficult hurdles. You are providing them with a break.

> There are people FAR more impressive than me who have done more with less, and when they have come out of that program many have been able to go toe to toe with our college grads.

That depends on the nature of the work itself. If it is just a matter of simple programming then maybe so but if the work needs advanced mathematics/statistical knowledge there is no way this can happen. There is a reason Colleges/Universities exist.

Re: Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again

#389

Post by whatamidoingyo » Thu, May 23, 2024, 5:17 PM UTC

rramadass wrote: post #306

bertil wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have significant concern about this—that it is a story. I don’t doubt that it’s true in OC’s case. But I don’t think it’s representative of the impact of technology. It’s the example that will get Bill Gates’ attention and end up on the stage at TED, but it might not be representative of 90% of how people are affected by technology. It might, and the story of how videos will change how people relate to each other (…

> I have significant concern about this—that it is a story. Your concerns are very correct but while you are willing to give him/her the benefit of the doubt, I am very very skeptical of their story; it sounds "too pat" and made up. If you look at their other replies there are too many incongruities and "movie plot tropes". I have a better chance of winning the lottery than "learning mathematics starting from long di…

You must have had a very comfy life growing up.

Re: Sal Khan is pioneering innovation in education again

#390

Post by rramadass » Thu, May 23, 2024, 5:17 PM UTC

squigz wrote: post #359

rramadass wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each event by itself may not be uncommon (but some like learning mathematics from absolute basics to AI/ML requirements via just Khan Academy is well-nigh impossible) but all together happening to one person which led to the claimed outcome is very very highly improbable. Real life doesn't work that way; time, energy(i.e. effort), money are all finite and wax/wane with context/environment and defines success/failure.…

Out of curiosity, what "evidence" would you request of GP to convince you of their story?

One for each of the claims they have made; At the minimum they may have embellished a lot of the hardships they claim they faced (eg. at one place they claim high-school dropout while in another they went to college). There is a reason experts in education/psychology and policy makers declare that family/neighbourhood environment (stable/nurturing or not) and economic conditions (proper nutrition and other basic needs for shelter/safety/education) are the main predictors of whether one can get out of the ghetto/poverty and govts. spend huge amounts of money to help them out.