Sam Altman is showing us who he really is • Hacker News Board

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#461

Post by CRConrad » Thu, May 23, 2024, 2:01 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #338

game_the0ry wrote: post #28

I wonder how long this thread will last on HN... How much influence does @sama have around here nowadays? For the record, I was never impressed with him - I am not aware of single consequential thing he has done or built other than take the credit for the fine work of the AI scientist + engineers at OpenAI. It feels like the company is just a vehicle for how own ambition and legacy, not much else.

> I wonder how long this thread will last on HN Users flagged it and it also set off the flamewar detector. I don't think we'd turn the penalties off on this one because because this article is derivative of the threads HN has already had on the recent things - threads like these: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40421225 - May 2024 (970 comments) Jan…

> Running OpenAI through the biggest tech boom since the iPhone is...rather obviously massive.

Yeah, creating massive hype about regurgitating others' thoughts is kind of similar to becoming the warden of the world's largest digital pris...eh, walled garden.

They're both massive somethings, all right.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#462

Post by CRConrad » Thu, May 23, 2024, 2:02 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #417

p_j_w wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My theory is that it had to do with pg praising him so publicly—I think it evoked a "why him and not me?" feeling in readers. The weird-ironic thing is that the complaint has only grown as Sam has achieved more...running OpenAI through the biggest tech boom since the iPhone is...rather obviously massive. I think if Sam unifies gravity into quantum theory, brokers peace in the middle east, and cures cancer, we'll sti…

I can see how it might read that way! I just think the phenomenon is a curious one. Sometimes I post for that reason. There is, however, a more dominant rule, which is never to contradict an angry crowd, because doing so only produces more of the same. I break that rule sometimes but not often. (Edit: s/mob/crowd. I realized on my bike ride hours later that 'mob' was too harsh.)

> I can see how it might read that way!

But you just cannot see how it perhaps reads that way because it actually is precisely that way?

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#463

Post by CRConrad » Thu, May 23, 2024, 2:08 PM UTC

czl wrote: post #371

__loam wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are we imagining a hypothetical situation in the context of talking about things that are currently happening? It's an interesting thought experiment but it's kind of irrelevant because brain implants are nowhere near that level and as far as I know, freedom of thought is already part of western law. I am not a lawyer though, I just think we can think about the actual damages to real people rather than make shit…

I put the "NOT IN REPLY TO YOU" since I meant that as a thought experiment of a possible future that where a similar situation may arise. Notice it is not freedom of thought that is in question. What is in question is freedom to share your sensations with others. You are watching a live football game and you share the sensations (what you see / hear / smell) with friends and family who are not there, etc. add to this…

> Sure this is scifi today. So were "flying machines" and "moon visits" and magic of our global communication pocket devices, etc.

Well, "moon visits" are well on their way to being SF again. Or old fairy tales. :-(

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#464

Post by CRConrad » Thu, May 23, 2024, 2:10 PM UTC

couchdb_ouchdb wrote: post #268

Does anyone else think this whole affair is wildly overblown? I'm absolutely perplexed by the blow back from the tech industry on this issue. Sam Altman tried something. ScarJo filed a lawsuit. ChatGPT took down the voice. That's it guys. The system worked like it should. But to suggest that he's a terrible person because of it is just beyond me. This is hardly a #MeToo type situation. She's a rich and famous Hollywo…

> But to suggest that he's a terrible person because of it is just beyond me.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that he's a terrible person just because of this.

This just confirms it.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#465

Post by dustfinger » Thu, May 23, 2024, 2:44 PM UTC

schmidt_fifty wrote: post #436

dustfinger wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should not give a sneaky, deceptive and manipulative person this much power over our future. I think this should be applied to our government. In my opinion, it is a failing in the structure of our government that those running the country control the police and appear to rarely be investigated unless by the request of a political opponent. They are seemingly outside of the law. It would be better if they were u…

> those running the country control the police Interestingly one of the things that came out of 2020 was that nobody appears willing to control the police. Unless by police you mean FBI, which would both make sense for investigating a national politician and be directly under the control of the executive.

> one of the things that came out of 2020 was that nobody appears willing to control the police

While I don't agree with that statement, I will clarify that I was using the term "police" to encompass all agencies in both USA and Canada capable of legally conducting an investigation at the federal level and carrying out an arrest. As far as I am aware, these agencies are all funded by our federal governments. Even though in my mind I was thinking of only the USA and Canada, the structural flaw probably applies to most governments, if not all governments ( speculating ). The flaw being that the leaders of our nations conduct national affairs as though they are shielded from the law policing its citizens. They are getting away with using our national resources ( financial, material, human etc ) in ways that may benefit their own agendas, but are observably harmful to our economy and therefore the citizens at large. If an investigation could prove that my speculation is true, then it would be in both our nation's best interest to deal with the problem both swiftly and legally. My hope would be that such an outcome would instigate reform to address the root cause. Without an investigation, we are at the mercy of waiting for the next election, but if our leaders are egregiously harming the interests our nations' citizens as a whole, we should not have to wait until their term is complete. I will add one more thing, the problem is not limited to economics. but also the abuse of the press and education to influence how we as a nation are able to learn about and understand both national and global politics.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#466

Post by CRConrad » Thu, May 23, 2024, 2:45 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #136

tengbretson wrote: post #15

I honestly wouldn't have even thought they sounded all that similar were it not for openai themselves courting comparisons to the movie Her.

If listen to them back to back (Scarlett from Her and Sky) they aren't similar at all. Scarlett has a distinctive raspiness to her voice that entirely doesn't exist in Sky. Sky isn't doing an impression of Scarlett. However, they both sound like AIs because Scarlett is playing that role and so is OpenAI's voice app.

> they both sound like AIs because Scarlett is playing that role and so is OpenAI's voice app.

I think ISWYDT.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#467

Post by CRConrad » Thu, May 23, 2024, 2:51 PM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #127

ben_jones wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re talking about reaching out to an individual for consent, not getting consent, and then deliberately choosing a voice actor to circumvent that lack of consent. Sam’s statement partially contradicts this by saying they contracted the voice actor before ScarJo - but I believe there’s enough intent shown in ScarJos original tweet that Sam as a default disregarded the entire interaction as an inconvenience where he…

You reach out to someone to do a job, they decline to take the job, you find someone else who can do the job in a similar way. You do not need the consent of the person who declined the job to hire someone else. I'm sure lots of movies have tried to cast Scarlett Johanson for a role and she declined, so they went with another actress who looked similar. Should she sue them too?

> You reach out to someone to do a job, they decline to take the job, you find someone else who can do the job in a similar way. You do not need the consent of the person who declined the job to hire someone else.

If the job is being the first person you reached out to, then you accept that you can't get the job done...

Legally. He took the other option.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#468

Post by CRConrad » Thu, May 23, 2024, 3:02 PM UTC

wvenable wrote: post #409

zemo wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there’s a huge gulf between saying “I think that guy is wrong” on a web forum and sentencing them to death in an extremely public and slow and painful manner. Nobody is being crucified here. It is intellectually dishonest to see criticism as crucifixion.

This isn't criticism, it's a witch hunt. Your argument here boils down to "he's evil" because of his movie preferences .

No, that's long been established. His movie preferences just illustrate it further.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#469

Post by wvenable » Thu, May 23, 2024, 4:20 PM UTC

CRConrad wrote: post #468

wvenable wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't criticism, it's a witch hunt. Your argument here boils down to "he's evil" because of his movie preferences .

No, that's long been established. His movie preferences just illustrate it further.

What's been "long established"?

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#470

Post by game_the0ry » Thu, May 23, 2024, 4:43 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #338

game_the0ry wrote: post #28

I wonder how long this thread will last on HN... How much influence does @sama have around here nowadays? For the record, I was never impressed with him - I am not aware of single consequential thing he has done or built other than take the credit for the fine work of the AI scientist + engineers at OpenAI. It feels like the company is just a vehicle for how own ambition and legacy, not much else.

> I wonder how long this thread will last on HN Users flagged it and it also set off the flamewar detector. I don't think we'd turn the penalties off on this one because because this article is derivative of the threads HN has already had on the recent things - threads like these: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40421225 - May 2024 (970 comments) Jan…

> (I'll add a personal bit even though that's usually a bad idea... I remember hearing this kind of comment about Sam going back to the Loopt days. My theory is that it had to do with pg praising him so publicly—I think it evoked a "why him and not me?" feeling in readers. The weird-ironic thing is that the complaint has only grown as Sam has achieved more. Running OpenAI through the biggest tech boom since the iPhone is...rather obviously massive. I think if Sam unifies gravity into quantum theory, brokers peace in the middle east, and cures cancer, we'll still be hearing these complaints—because they're not really grounded either in objective achievement or lack of it. It's some kind of second-order phenomenon, and actually rather interesting. At least if you aren't Sam!)

I'm not saying he did not achieve anything significant, but its not clear what those things are, other then having the backing of PG and others.

I'm older and have played the game of corporate game of thrones. I have seen far too many selfish sycophants rise to leadership, only to eventually make things worse than better by using their positions as a platform for their own self interest. It's a big reason why companies like Boeing and GE become hollow shells dependent on government assistance, while companies like Costco and Alcoa last for a long time.

So I want to know what exactly sama has done to deserve prestige and recognition the he has. Bc right now, it looks like cult of personality.