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The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

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Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#181

Post by TeeMassive »

agumonkey wrote: post #60
TeeMassive wrote: post #41

Finally a subject my childhood makes me "expert" at! People often say that I have a unsavory dark humor, but it's one of the best coping mechanism out there. My earliest memory is my mother spreading food all over my face because I didn't want to finish my plate. I remember my eyes hurting because of the pepper in it. My father threatened to shoot the family dog on a weekly basis to make me behave. I could not leave…

The lack of a clear notion of boundaries or self and thus ability to stand for yourself is a very subtle and deep problem. Good luck.

Yeah, I always assume that I'm the one whose presence is at best a privilege. It takes a lot of effort to take my proper place and stand up for myself. I'll never forgive them for putting this curse inside of me. Now words got out of what they did to me and my sisters and they pretty much have to hide. They deserve everything bad happening to them.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#182

Post by steve_adams_86 »

igorramazanov wrote: post #36

Attachment Theory is an interesting subject on the matter. A few useful books which helped me with both understanding and healing (there're still problems, but it gets better): 1. Love Sense, Sue Johnson. 2. The Power of Attachment, Diane Pooler Heller. 3. Understanding Disorganized Attachment: Theory and Practice for Working with Children and Adults, David, Shemmings and Yvonne Shemmings. 4. The Body Keeps the Score…

I found “Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving” extremely revelatory. It was a great introduction to the concept for me.

Funnily enough, I picked up up thinking this stuff was nonsense. Then it hit me like a bag of bricks. It was very humbling.

Since then I’ve also found writing by James Hollis very useful. One which stood out for me was “Under Saturn’s Shadow: The Wounding and Healing of Men”. It’s quite insightful about how modern life can afflict men, and how men can learn, adapt, and overcome these challenges. It’s refreshingly well-rounded and takes seriously the idea that men can suffer just as women do, patriarchy or not (and even because of it), and offers tools to work towards making things right.

In general his work is a great stepping stone from understanding CPTSD to then finding more nuanced models of the internal mechanisms, how to understand and articulate them, then ultimately grow beyond them. Some may find the Jungian psychology overwhelming or off-putting (I did initially), but there is real substance there.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#183

Post by throwaway2037 »

matrix87 wrote: post #176
pm wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that trauma is now everywhere sort of de-legitimizes it to the point where there's no way of knowing in the average case. I can tell you that trauma is very real for the person experiencing it, and it's this kind of flippant dismissal that stops people from seeking help. Trauma everywhere, in what fashion? Perhaps because more people are talking about it, more people are getting the courage to talk about i…

> Trauma everywhere, in what fashion? Perhaps because more people are talking about it, more people are getting the courage to talk about it. Social contagion is a thing. Just because more people are taking about something doesn't mean it's true > Eventually, the damaged start damaging others, people put their hands over the ears pretending nothing's happening, and the cycle continues. It doesn't take therapy or a bu…

Social contagion affects girls and women much more than boys and men.

    > It doesn't take therapy or a bunch of trauma ideology to know that hurting people is wrong.
If that simple explanation is true, why do the abused so frequently become the abusers? And why do they struggle to stop before therapy?

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#184

Post by matrix87 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #183
matrix87 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trauma everywhere, in what fashion? Perhaps because more people are talking about it, more people are getting the courage to talk about it. Social contagion is a thing. Just because more people are taking about something doesn't mean it's true > Eventually, the damaged start damaging others, people put their hands over the ears pretending nothing's happening, and the cycle continues. It doesn't take therapy or a bu…

Social contagion affects girls and women much more than boys and men. > It doesn't take therapy or a bunch of trauma ideology to know that hurting people is wrong. If that simple explanation is true, why do the abused so frequently become the abusers? And why do they struggle to stop before therapy?

> Social contagion affects girls and women much more than boys and men.

How is this related?

> And why do they struggle to stop before therapy?

Sounds like you're implying that they stop after therapy also

Do they, long term? Is it because of therapy or because courts/law enforcement are involved?

> why do the abused so frequently become the abusers?

I'm not saying that abuse does not make people more likely to abuse, I'm saying that therapy alone does not reliably make them better people

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#186

Post by kombookcha »

smeej wrote: post #162
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does seem like the sort of article an estranged parent would find extremely satisfying to read. Remember, it's someone else turning your child against you!

Estranged parents seem to think everything was fine and then suddenly changed, and usually "for no reason." I had four friends, separately, individually, reach out to me and say, "I know this isn't actually my business, and I wonder whether I should even say anything, but why does your dad think it's OK to talk to you like he does?" I then spent three more years telling him each time he belittled me or spoke to me li…

I think there's a lot of self-selection going on with the cathegory of estranged parents who blame their kids. If you're the sort of person to reflect on your behaviour, take responsibility and change it because you realise you're hurting others, you're a lot less likely to end up with estranged kids in the first place.

If it does happen anyway, you're probably also less likely to be self-soothing with listicles about how it's definitely the fault of your ungrateful kids and whoever turned them against you.

I hope you're in a better spot now, and I'm glad you found the strength to demand better.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#187

Post by beyonddream »

cassepipe wrote: post #86
igorramazanov wrote: post #36

Attachment Theory is an interesting subject on the matter. A few useful books which helped me with both understanding and healing (there're still problems, but it gets better): 1. Love Sense, Sue Johnson. 2. The Power of Attachment, Diane Pooler Heller. 3. Understanding Disorganized Attachment: Theory and Practice for Working with Children and Adults, David, Shemmings and Yvonne Shemmings. 4. The Body Keeps the Score…

Scott Alexander's review of The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk : https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/11/12/book-review-the-body-k...

Thanks for sharing!

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#188

Post by agumonkey »

TeeMassive wrote: post #181
agumonkey wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of a clear notion of boundaries or self and thus ability to stand for yourself is a very subtle and deep problem. Good luck.

Yeah, I always assume that I'm the one whose presence is at best a privilege. It takes a lot of effort to take my proper place and stand up for myself. I'll never forgive them for putting this curse inside of me. Now words got out of what they did to me and my sisters and they pretty much have to hide. They deserve everything bad happening to them.

I had the displeasure of having to erode myself to survive after realising all this, it was horrendous, because I was now aware of what I needed to do for my own health but couldn't.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#189

Post by agumonkey »

igorramazanov wrote: post #89
agumonkey wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these talking about the neurological basis of attachment ? Thanks for the list nonetheless.

Yes, except the "Focusing" practice and the last one about the violence. Attachment is a weird thing, because it usually happens so early in life where there are no memories yet. However, infants still internalize everything, they can feel, react to the environment and understand consequences of what their feelings tell them. "If I'm scared, then there's a high probability of something bad to be happen to me". So, th…

> So, there are may not be rational memories to be linked to the problem 20-30 years later in life.

Yeah that was the hidden question I had, your neurology can stack up years of life until you end up in a dead end and everything breaks.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#190

Post by smeej »

kombookcha wrote: post #186
smeej wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Estranged parents seem to think everything was fine and then suddenly changed, and usually "for no reason." I had four friends, separately, individually, reach out to me and say, "I know this isn't actually my business, and I wonder whether I should even say anything, but why does your dad think it's OK to talk to you like he does?" I then spent three more years telling him each time he belittled me or spoke to me li…

I think there's a lot of self-selection going on with the cathegory of estranged parents who blame their kids. If you're the sort of person to reflect on your behaviour, take responsibility and change it because you realise you're hurting others, you're a lot less likely to end up with estranged kids in the first place. If it does happen anyway, you're probably also less likely to be self-soothing with listicles abou…

There wouldn't be any way to collect this data, but if you could, I guarantee the overwhelming majority of "apologies" from parent to child over the course of these relationships would start with, "I'm sorry you..." rather than, "I'm sorry I..."

I'd be pleasantly surprised to find out sincere apologies ever happened.

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