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Assange loses extradition appeal

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#51

Post by hythloday »

vidarh wrote: post #49
hythloday wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has been interviewed, about these events, on the 30th August, by Sthlm police[0]. Swedish law demands that he can only be charged after a second round of questioning after extradition (as I understand it). How many "less high profile" alleged rapists leave the country and then fight extradition? It seems to me obvious that he's being treated unusually because he has behaved unusually. It is not uncommon, especiall…

You are right, I didn't remember the first interview. He was, though, subsequently told he was free to leave, after the first prosecutor decided there was no case. When he's a new prosecutor well known for her aggressive activism in expanding the scope of rape law then decides to override, there's every reason to be worried, whatever you've done or not done.

For being "well-known for her aggressive activism in expanding the scope of rape law" it's surprising I can't find anything about it on the first 3 pages of Google that pre-dates the Assange trial.

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#52

Post by marekmroz »

junto wrote: post #28
zbuc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am, however, confused at how the US can charge him for espionage, given that he's not a US citizen. It makes sense that he would be extradited to Sweden -- he's accused of committing a crime(well, 2) while he was present in the country. I don't see the same applying to what he's accused of in the US.

Lots of non-US citizens have been charged and found guilty of espionage by the US. The cold war is full of examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Soviet_and_Russian_e... I'm not sure whether you have to be physically present in the US to be guilty of espionage. The game has changed somewhat. It used to be that you had send someone to sneak inside buildings in the middle of the night, taking photos of secre…

I am not sure you have to be found guilty of anything by anyone. The game has changed somewhat. All it takes is for someone to decide that you deserve a spot on president's kill list [1] and one predator strike later you are no more.

[1] http://www.democracynow.org/2012/5/30/glenn_greenwald_obamas...

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#53

Post by dinkle »

khuey wrote: post #45
vidarh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this has anything to do with the treaty texts. UK judges are known to stand up to the political establishment when parliament doesn't get their ducks in a row and very, very carefully make sure they are consistent with UK constitutional law, which does in fact provide fairly strong protections, and even more so coupled with the Human Rights Act. This to the ongoing exasperation of UK politicians. Swedis…

I'm quite surprised to hear that. My naive expectation was that the UK would be much more likely to hand Assange over to the US than Sweden.

That isn't how extradition works. This is an extradition hearing on a EU arrest warrant, the UK (as the arresting country) would not be able to extradite to anywhere BUT Sweden, despite any agreements with the US.

The other factors you must take into consideration is that in the UK, the judicial system is separated from the political one (not so in Sweden) and you would have to deal with English CommonLaw. Compare this with Sweden where the prime minister has already asserted Assange's guilt in parliament for an on-going case (in the CommonWealth countries or the US, this would be grounds for a mistrial).

Although it is tempting to think that because the UK must certainly be one of the US' closest ally that it would bow to the US pressure, there is a lot of legal red tape to go through but in the last 7 years the US has had significant influence over Sweden in legal terms. For instance Sweden once had a strong stance on matters of privacy but now all call records and IP records are stored in the Titan Traffic Database and warrant-less wiretaps are now possible through the FRA law but because of the vast amounts of data with both systems, the data is handed over to the US directly for signal processing (which may be a violation of EU privacy laws and UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights).

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#54

Post by fusiongyro »

mtgx wrote: post #50
fusiongyro wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. It's very hard to defend Assange's actions without appealing to paranoia. If he didn't commit the crimes, he ought to behave as though he has nothing to be afraid of. His flight from law is becoming a bigger story than the actual accusations--it's hard to look innocent while fleeing the authorities. If he really did nothing wrong, the appropriate place to prove it is in court, not on HN.

Should Dalai Lama turn himself in to the Chinese authorities, too? Even if Assange was completely innocent, that wouldn't stop the US Government from trying to put him in a cell next to Bradley Manning for 2 years, if they were really pissed off at him. These days when you piss of the top hierarchy of the US Government, you're guilty until proven innocent.

Like I said, an appeal to paranoia. Is it really so hard to imagine he might stand a fair trial in either country?

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#55

Post by sp332 »

fusiongyro wrote: post #47
jgrahamc wrote: post #12

This is probably an unpopular opinion for some of the HN population, but I wish that Assange would be extradited to Sweden. He's appealing extradition on technical grounds, and it's about time he went to Sweden and faced the judicial system there. All of the current proceedings are a sideshow which have nothing to do with the things he'd accused of. He's accused of sexual offenses in Sweden, we have a working system…

I agree with you. It's very hard to defend Assange's actions without appealing to paranoia. If he didn't commit the crimes, he ought to behave as though he has nothing to be afraid of. His flight from law is becoming a bigger story than the actual accusations--it's hard to look innocent while fleeing the authorities. If he really did nothing wrong, the appropriate place to prove it is in court, not on HN.

Fleeing authorities? He's under house arrest with a monitoring anklet and has to sign in at a police station every day. The authorities know where he is every second.

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#56

Post by dlitz »

jgrahamc wrote: post #12

This is probably an unpopular opinion for some of the HN population, but I wish that Assange would be extradited to Sweden. He's appealing extradition on technical grounds, and it's about time he went to Sweden and faced the judicial system there. All of the current proceedings are a sideshow which have nothing to do with the things he'd accused of. He's accused of sexual offenses in Sweden, we have a working system…

If Assange's appeal succeeds, doesn't it just mean they can still try to convince a Swedish judge to make a new extradition request? Is that too much to ask for?

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#57

Post by glogla »

fusiongyro wrote: post #47
jgrahamc wrote: post #12

This is probably an unpopular opinion for some of the HN population, but I wish that Assange would be extradited to Sweden. He's appealing extradition on technical grounds, and it's about time he went to Sweden and faced the judicial system there. All of the current proceedings are a sideshow which have nothing to do with the things he'd accused of. He's accused of sexual offenses in Sweden, we have a working system…

I agree with you. It's very hard to defend Assange's actions without appealing to paranoia. If he didn't commit the crimes, he ought to behave as though he has nothing to be afraid of. His flight from law is becoming a bigger story than the actual accusations--it's hard to look innocent while fleeing the authorities. If he really did nothing wrong, the appropriate place to prove it is in court, not on HN.

Are you actually saying "one who has done nothing wrong has nothing to fear"? That looks little too naive in this world.

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#58

Post by junto »

marekmroz wrote: post #52
junto wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of non-US citizens have been charged and found guilty of espionage by the US. The cold war is full of examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Soviet_and_Russian_e... I'm not sure whether you have to be physically present in the US to be guilty of espionage. The game has changed somewhat. It used to be that you had send someone to sneak inside buildings in the middle of the night, taking photos of secre…

I am not sure you have to be found guilty of anything by anyone. The game has changed somewhat. All it takes is for someone to decide that you deserve a spot on president's kill list [1] and one predator strike later you are no more. [1] http://www.democracynow.org/2012/5/30/glenn_greenwald_obamas...

Luckily for Assange it wouldn't go down so well for UK-US relations if the president ordered a predator strike on Ellingham Hall: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellingham_Hall,_Norfolk#Refuge

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#59

Post by fusiongyro »

glogla wrote: post #57
fusiongyro wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. It's very hard to defend Assange's actions without appealing to paranoia. If he didn't commit the crimes, he ought to behave as though he has nothing to be afraid of. His flight from law is becoming a bigger story than the actual accusations--it's hard to look innocent while fleeing the authorities. If he really did nothing wrong, the appropriate place to prove it is in court, not on HN.

Are you actually saying "one who has done nothing wrong has nothing to fear"? That looks little too naive in this world.

I'm saying the accusations don't bear this level of paranoia.

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#60

Post by okamiueru »

vidarh wrote: post #49
hythloday wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has been interviewed, about these events, on the 30th August, by Sthlm police[0]. Swedish law demands that he can only be charged after a second round of questioning after extradition (as I understand it). How many "less high profile" alleged rapists leave the country and then fight extradition? It seems to me obvious that he's being treated unusually because he has behaved unusually. It is not uncommon, especiall…

You are right, I didn't remember the first interview. He was, though, subsequently told he was free to leave, after the first prosecutor decided there was no case. When he's a new prosecutor well known for her aggressive activism in expanding the scope of rape law then decides to override, there's every reason to be worried, whatever you've done or not done.

I stumbled on last sentence. Maybe "When his new prosecutor is ..."?
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