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Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

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Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#301

Post by quantified »

panarky wrote: post #6

Altman would have us believe it's all just an innocent misunderstanding but without actually saying so: "We cast the voice actor behind Sky’s voice before any outreach to Ms. Johansson." Is he trying to suggest the company did not try to make the voice sound like her without her permission? The statement sounds like it's written by a lawyer to be technically true while implying something that is actually false. These…

Recall the adage that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It certainly changes your perspective.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#302

Post by dorkwood »

smilebot wrote: post #289
xt00 wrote: post #40

This is a typical "move fast and break things" mentality.. except that mentality betrays Sam's statements about doing a bunch of this stuff "carefully" etc.. its all a smokescreen.. nobody is going to realistically stop working on AGI in order to be careful.. basically AGI is being pursued like the race to get the atom bomb.. so yea history tells us its full speed ahead with no brakes. Scarjo is just the latest perso…

I would put this in the "better to ask for forgiveness than ask than permission" bucket. Which is also a typical mentality in SV.

But they did ask permission, and were denied.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#303

Post by simonsarris »

btilly wrote: post #182
afavour wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He kind of ruined that argument when he tweeted “Her” alongside the video. Pretty clearly drawing a line between the voice and Johansson’s portrayal in the movie. Incredible, really. It would have been so easy to just… not do that.

Let's take a parallel situation from around 20 years ago, and see how you feel about it. I'm going back that far as a reminder of what was long considered OK, before AI. In the movie The Seed of Chucky , Britney Spears gets killed. You can watch the clip at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3kCg5o0cHA . It is very clearly Britney Spears. Except Britney Spears was not hired for the role. They hired a Britney Spears imp…

> If so, should Elvis Presly's estate also sue all of the Elvis Presly impersonators out there?

Generally the "Right to Publicity" laws are clear about expiring at death. It's not like copyright.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#304

Post by computerdork »

WalterBright wrote: post #233
computerdork wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, but Sam seemed to think it necessary to try to get her permission first, so it must be at least somewhat problematic. Yeah, "the major AI product in the world" to ask to use a famous actors voice, and then when she says no, create something similar anyways, is at least a little be slimy and really a bad idea on many different levels (legally for one thing).

> Sam seemed to think it necessary to try to get her permission first Weird Al also gets permission to do a parody even though it is not legally required.

Well, Weird Al is singing funny songs to a niche group of people, while Sam Altman is creating cutting-edge AI known and used throughout the world. Very different audiences.

Yeah, big business needs to be held to higher standard since they have so much power and affect so many people (and this higher standard is especially important since AI is uncharted territory and also since OpenAI already had a failed coup)

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#305

Post by gamblor956 »

czl wrote: post #261
Cheer2171 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are hundreds of people with similar voices. Voice *actors* act. It is in the name. The voice they perform in is not their usual voice. A good voice actor can do dozens of different characters. If you hire a voice actor to impersonate someone else's voice, that is infringement. Bette Midler vs Ford, Tom Waits vs Frito Lay are the two big examples of court cases where a company hired voice actors to impersonate…

So when a cartoon show hires a sound alike replacement voice actor so that the switch is hard to tell the former actor has a case against the show? Perhaps instead the show has a case against the former voice actor using that same character voice elsewhere such as in radio advertising to impersonate cartoon characters that are not licenced?

Theoretically yes. Which is why they disclaim that right in their work contract for a voice acting gig.

Believe it or not, these issues have been around for decades, and have been well settled for nearly as long.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#306

Post by hnburnsy »

kaiwen1 wrote: post #104

There are many people with voices similar to Scarlett Johansson's. If SJ is unwilling to be a voice actor for OpenAi, then why should OpenAI not find a similar voice and use that instead? SJ certainly does not have a monopoly on all voices similar to hers. Anyone in possession of such a voice has the same right as SJ to monetize it. And someone did in fact exercise that right. If you compare the Sky voice to SJ's, th…

>OpenAI's mistake was caving to SJ. They should have kept Sky and told SJ to get lost. If SJ sued, they could simply prove another voice actor was used and make the legitimate argument that SJ doesn't have a monopoly on voices similar to hers.

Yes, they should have not reached out again, but now they are screwed. In no way will they want a trial and associated discovery. SJ can write her own ticket here.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#307

Post by sillysaurusx »

lelandfe wrote: post #273
sillysaurusx wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The case is from 1988. That’s the year I was born. Societal norms are in a constant state of flux, and this one case from 36 years ago isn’t really an indication of the current state of how case law will play out. 2. Ford explicitly hired an impersonator. OpenAI hired someone that sounded like her, and it’s her natural voice. Should movies be held to the same standard when casting their actors? This is about as ab…

Midler is actually quite similar. Midler didn't want to do a commercial, and refused an offer, so they hired a lookalike that fooled her friends. The appellate court held that Ford and its advertising agency had "misappropriated" Midler's voice. Waits v. Frito Lay, Inc was '92, and cited it. They used a Tom Waits-sounding voice on an original song, and Waits successfully sued: > Discussing the right of publicity, the…

Thank you. I didn’t know it was similar specifically for voices in commercial use.

That’s annoying, but we live in a country with lots of annoying laws that we nonetheless abide by. In this case I guess OpenAI just didn’t want to risk losing a court battle.

I still think legal = moral is mistaken in general, and from a moral standpoint it’s bogus that OpenAI couldn’t replicate the movie Her. It would’ve been cool. But, people can feel however they want to feel about it, and my personal opinion is worth about two milkshakes. But it’s still strange to me that anyone has a problem with what they did.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#308

Post by czl »

gamblor956 wrote: post #305
czl wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So when a cartoon show hires a sound alike replacement voice actor so that the switch is hard to tell the former actor has a case against the show? Perhaps instead the show has a case against the former voice actor using that same character voice elsewhere such as in radio advertising to impersonate cartoon characters that are not licenced?

Theoretically yes. Which is why they disclaim that right in their work contract for a voice acting gig. Believe it or not, these issues have been around for decades, and have been well settled for nearly as long.

So the voice of the AI in the film "Her" who do you think has more rights to it being reused elsewhere in association with AI? The voice actor? The film owners? Why then the current news?

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#309

Post by Blackthorn »

kaiwen1 wrote: post #104

There are many people with voices similar to Scarlett Johansson's. If SJ is unwilling to be a voice actor for OpenAi, then why should OpenAI not find a similar voice and use that instead? SJ certainly does not have a monopoly on all voices similar to hers. Anyone in possession of such a voice has the same right as SJ to monetize it. And someone did in fact exercise that right. If you compare the Sky voice to SJ's, th…

> then why should OpenAI not find a similar voice and use that instead?

That's assuming they did, right now they're asking us to pretty please trust them that their girlfriend from Canada is really real! She's real, you guys! No I can't show her to you.

Re: Sam Altman is showing us who he really is

#310

Post by Blackthorn »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #280
Teever wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any way to confirm that they actually did hire a voice actor prior to reaching out to ScarJo?

ScarJo claims they reached out to her just 2 days prior to demoing the voice that sounded like her, and (I believe) OpenAI outright claimed that they hired a different voice actor, though they didn't admit that they instructed her to try to sound like Scarlett's character in Her, which could make or break Scarlett's case.

They claimed they hired someone and they can't tell you who it is but pretty please trust them that they hired someone.
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