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The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

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Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#21

Post by DoreenMichele »

canjobear wrote: post #4

Are children more traumatized now than in the past? Seems like the past was harder on children.

The past was harder.

We generally have more resources and knowledge now. People tend to want to raise the bar when that becomes possible.

When kids suffered or died because humans lacked food security, reliable medical treatments etc, it was also generally not really the parent's fault. Knowing you could have been treated better and your parents/the world just didn't actually care about you is scarring in ways that "No one has enough." aren't.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#22

Post by brazzledazzle »

wumbo wrote: post #20
enneff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is we? You talk like there is some hypocrisy here but you’re treating all people as one person. Mental health researchers and workers advocate for more support for people across the board. Politicians don’t give a shit because their constituents, on the whole, don’t either.

I have powerful anecdotal hypocrisy from the closest people in my life. They work in mental health, but intentionally to a degree much higher than neglect, and over recent and long periods of time: kick people while they’re down, not limited to me.

I don't know anything about your experiences so don't take this as an attempt to defend them but I've been told that the mental health field has a substantial amount of people who suffered or suffer from mental health issues and to some degree their pursuit of the career is an attempt to understand themselves better.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#23

Post by sobkas »

canjobear wrote: post #4

Are children more traumatized now than in the past? Seems like the past was harder on children.

> Are children more traumatized now than in the past? Seems like the past was harder on children.

My guess is that in the past child mortality was higher and children traumatised enough just didn't survived. And because of such high mortality no one cared to find out why.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#24

Post by cardanome »

canjobear wrote: post #4

Are children more traumatized now than in the past? Seems like the past was harder on children.

Trauma isn't as simple as more worse things -> bigger/more trauma.

Under certain circumstances people can experiences horrible stuff with barely any ill effect while other times really trivial small things can totally break them.

Just having one stable positive relationship with an adult can make a child significantly more resilient while the child that lacks that relationship might break at a minor problem. There are many factors that determine resilience and it can vary greatly from person to person. And it is situational. Someone might be a hardened war veteran having seen it all but totally break when seeing a child getting a minor wound.

So children today might be objectively better off than in the past but it does not necessary mean their struggles are less valid, they are just different. So hard to say whether they are less traumatized or not, maybe a little bit but mostly probably just in different ways.

But yeah, the main thing is that we are much better at recognizing signs of trauma these days and people can be more open of their struggles so it might seem like there is more traumatized people when probably there is the same amount or less.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#25

Post by throwaway173738 »

brazzledazzle wrote: post #22
wumbo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have powerful anecdotal hypocrisy from the closest people in my life. They work in mental health, but intentionally to a degree much higher than neglect, and over recent and long periods of time: kick people while they’re down, not limited to me.

I don't know anything about your experiences so don't take this as an attempt to defend them but I've been told that the mental health field has a substantial amount of people who suffered or suffer from mental health issues and to some degree their pursuit of the career is an attempt to understand themselves better.

My mom is an alcoholic and also formerly a psychologist and I’ve heard that from her too. Her early childhood bore many of the traumatic experiences that this article warns damage childrens’ brains.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#26

Post by spamizbad »

canjobear wrote: post #4

Are children more traumatized now than in the past? Seems like the past was harder on children.

One factor might be family size. Purely anecdotal, but I have a friend who grew up in an extremely abusive household and said directly to me that the only reason he thinks he survived his situation was because he had 4 other siblings and they all supported each other during the difficult times.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#27

Post by smeej »

diob wrote: post #3
softwaredoug wrote: post #2

One book that really resonated with me was "The Deepest Well" about the epidemic of childhood trauma and its deep and measurable impact on health outcomes for adults. I learned that resolving childhood trauma would help on the order of curing cancer in terms of health outcomes in our society https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33413909-the-deepest-wel...

This stuff is almost too scary for me to read. My childhood was awful and only around age 30 did my life start to get "better".

I've been going through a similar metamorphosis, but it didn't start until 36.

I wonder sometimes whether I'll have missed out on some things permanently because of it. For instance, every year my odds of carrying a healthy child to term drop farther, and I'm already considered "geriatric" for pregnancy purposes.

I really don't see how it could have happened any earlier than it did, and I'm grateful it happened at all because I can easily see how it could have been worse, but there's still a grief journey involved even though I try not to dwell on the things lost.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#28

Post by smeej »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #19

In the microplastics thread, so many were ready to assign blame for so many pervasive ills to the prevalence of microplastics. Meanwhile we have known about the devastating effect of interpersonal trauma in childhood and just shrug or worse, say “well that’s how my parents did it and I’m fine.” Foundationally there is no problem more urgent than eliminating interpersonal alienation at every possible interaction and e…

I love that "and I'm fine" line. I see it a lot in contexts where someone is defending something that seems barbaric to me, which I would consider a very clear sign that they are not fine.

It leads to a lot of, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means," at least in my internal dialogue.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#29

Post by roenxi »

smeej wrote: post #28
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #19

In the microplastics thread, so many were ready to assign blame for so many pervasive ills to the prevalence of microplastics. Meanwhile we have known about the devastating effect of interpersonal trauma in childhood and just shrug or worse, say “well that’s how my parents did it and I’m fine.” Foundationally there is no problem more urgent than eliminating interpersonal alienation at every possible interaction and e…

I love that "and I'm fine" line. I see it a lot in contexts where someone is defending something that seems barbaric to me, which I would consider a very clear sign that they are not fine. It leads to a lot of, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means," at least in my internal dialogue.

You're in a tangled philosophical thornbed with that internal dialog. It isn't a strange thing to think but as far as I can see functional humans are all barbaric. In the small scale, the practice of eating meat leaps to mind. I love a good chicken burger but let us be real about what it takes to produce one. Not pretty.

So we might have an existence problem if we go to find someone who doesn't defend barbaric practices and describe themselves as "fine". Everyone defends some barbaric practices, and some subset of them will be fine.

Re: The Effects of Early Relational Trauma (2001) [pdf]

#30

Post by aleph_minus_one »

spamizbad wrote: post #26
canjobear wrote: post #4

Are children more traumatized now than in the past? Seems like the past was harder on children.

One factor might be family size. Purely anecdotal, but I have a friend who grew up in an extremely abusive household and said directly to me that the only reason he thinks he survived his situation was because he had 4 other siblings and they all supported each other during the difficult times.

Another consideration: could it be that with more children, in an abusive household the abuse is typically spreaded out to more children, so that each individual child gets less abuse than in a smaller abusive household?
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