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Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

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Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#201
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is theft too. Theft caused by incompetence and out–sourced customer support is still theft.

No. Theft requires intent. If we accept that it's incompetence and no one actually intended to apply the fee to an electric vehicle then it is not theft.

If no one intended to apply the fee to an electric vehicle, then why was the fee applied to an electric vehicle? Moreover why did it happen numerous times? And why was support not immediately like "oh crap lemme fix that"?

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#202
post #9

Rented a Hertz and got charged $90 a day for easy pass service whether I drove the car or not (I was camping for a week) and had no way of fighting the charges, some fine print tricked me. For such scams I vowed to never give my business to Hertz again. Ever.

avis does the same thing: they ask you if you want the ez pass to be activated and if you say yes, they put abbreviations in the fine print that indicate you agreed to their ridiculously priced "unlimited tolls" package, even though there are other cheaper ez pass related services, and because you sign the rental agreement in order to get the keys, you don't have a leg to stand on if you dispute it later. because the…

It has been for a long time. Back when I worked for a (moving truck) rental place they charged like $75 "for processing and billing" the tolls to you.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you use a small claims court if the rental contract has mandatory binding arbitration clause?

You absolutely can. Now the company has to pay one of their lawyers ($$$) to show up, or the claim is a default judgement, which they have to pay. So the lawyer shows up and says blah blah mandatory binding arbitration. The judge can interrupt and say "don't care, judgement against, pay the man". Or the opposite, in which case at least you cost them more than they cost you. Which is why they probably take the default…

> in which case at least you cost them more than they cost you

Did you really? Monetarily you did of course. How much time does it cost you though? It might cost the company a couple hours.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you can unfortunately, and arbitration should be banned. I’m not sure how a system overriding the legal system is allowed.

It’s not overriding the legal system, it willfully sidestepping it. But obligating the contracted party to agree. The issue of course is that Hertz (in this case) can put whatever random requirements into the contract, and you can’t arbitrarily strike them. You still need/want their service. That said, just because there’s an arbitration clause in the contract doesn’t mean you’re absolutely stuck. You can hire a lawy…

Reminds me of those contracts (that are completely formulaic and you definitely can't negotiate) that say "I agree this rate has been negotiated".

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#205
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is you can get sent to collections for basically any reason and debt collectors will hound you without regard to whether it is something you should be obligated to pay or not

And I can create a class action lawsuit for literally anything I want. Doesn't mean I'm going to win. What's your point?

Yes, but against a person?

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You absolutely can. Now the company has to pay one of their lawyers ($$$) to show up, or the claim is a default judgement, which they have to pay. So the lawyer shows up and says blah blah mandatory binding arbitration. The judge can interrupt and say "don't care, judgement against, pay the man". Or the opposite, in which case at least you cost them more than they cost you. Which is why they probably take the default…

At least in some courts, I would think filing a motion to dismiss would be enough, without swnding a lawyer to court... but I have never been theough that process before so I can't say for sure? Still takes time, and arbitration isn't all that scary, ao forcing them to arbitrate can also be a costly endeavor for them.

I would think this is possible. I've often agreed with the other party's lawyer that oral arguments on MtDs are unnecessary and then we just let the judge rule "on the papers" without anyone having to be there in person. The judge can then just file a written order with his ruling.

Bear in mind that motions and discovery are highly frowned upon in Small Claims courts that I've litigated in. And 95% of the time the court will rule in favor of the bigger party if they bring a lawyer, just out of general hatred of courts for unrepresented litigants.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The context here was a charge that should not be paid…

Bundled with a bunch of charges that were, in fact owed. OP disputed the whole charge (probably because that was the only option), but it's important to know that Hertz did come after him for the rest of the money.

Right: as you say there probably was no other option -- OP was in a bind because all the charges are packaged together. There wasn't really a neat solution to this, except how OP played it, which could have ended up going badly wrong.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#208
post #185
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone pays it "pays it" is relative. The merchant is generally charging 3~6% more than they would otherwise if they didn't use a CC. Said differently, assuming all other things equal, buying the same good for the same price from two identical stores, one who only accepts CCs and one who accepts cash, the one who accepts cash will profit more. Therefore they can, in theory, charge less for their good. > being che…

If both customers are shopping at the same store, and one pays in card and one pays in cash, the card holder pays less due to cashback. I agree the prices will be higher than at a store that does not accept credit cards due to not having to pay the fees. The only way I see the extra 3% for cardholders is because they are "forced" to shop in card-accepting establishments which will have higher costs to cover fees whil…

> the card holder pays less due to cashback.

At a point in time basis, you are correct.

> The only way I see the extra 3% for cardholders is because they are "forced" to shop in card-accepting establishments which will have higher costs to cover fees while the cash user can choose the cheaper cash vendor.

Correct. And my point is that this 3% tax gives you the feature to dispute the charge.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#209
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I can create a class action lawsuit for literally anything I want. Doesn't mean I'm going to win. What's your point?

Yes, but against a person?

A consumer can sue or join a class-action lawsuit to recoup fees where goods/services weren't provider.

A business can sue a consumer for not paying.

They are two sides of the same coin.

Re: Hertz Charging a Tesla Renter for Gas Was Not an Isolated Incident

#210
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see a campaign to coordinate small claims court claims against abusive companies. It could really fuck a company's day up if several hundred to thousand people across the world decides to seek redress from a small claims court on the same day.

If it's to dispute small charges, the company doesn't need to show up and just accept the loss.

It still costs them to do this because they have to do the paperwork to handle it, the meetings to decide what to do, the confusion that will come from this, and the opportunity cost of these courses, as well as the bad publicity that will come from this announcement that the group doing this will of course release to social media.
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