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Bossware is a big legal risk

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Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#221

Post by jonathankoren »

mindslight wrote: post #215
jonathankoren wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to know how the Overton window shifted from workers as humans, to workers as property? Look at laws around the telephone. If you have a telephone on your desk, it is illegal for your employer to secretly listen into those calls. However, if you send an email, you employer has every right to secretly read them. The only difference is, emails don’t exist in the 30s, but telephones did.

Objective snapshot-in-time comparisons like this are fantastic. It's all too easy for the novelty of tech churn to serve as justification for the age-old authoritarian desire.

It’s the decline of unions

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#222

Post by kbrkbr »

dalyons wrote: post #156
kbrkbr wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've seen that also. You interview someone online, help file the paperwork to get into the country and work visum, and then someone else, a technically much weaker guy, shows up on the first day. We had that twice in the last two years

wild. So the paperwork and the visa etc was all actually filled out with the details of the weaker guy? Including the photo and suchlike? crazy that gets past the companies immigration lawyers Also, doesnt he just get fired straight away and lose his visa? Seems like very high effort and low chance of success, I must be missing something

This is in EU. You have three months to find a new job, which I found here after your comment made me think [1].

This may be a reasonable gamble, as many companies do probably not expect such a rochade, and do not have detective measures in place. And if that doesn't work, you still have 3 months time to find another job in an environment that favored job seekers at this time.

[1] https://expatrist.com/losing-a-job-in-germany-with-eu-blue-c...

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#223

Post by woleium »

davely wrote: post #22
woleium wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just assume it does

No kidding! We have some ridiculous timeout on our work machines that triggers the screensaver after 2 minutes of idle time (we can’t change this). After it’s triggered, you need to enter your password to unlock (company mandated, 10 chars minimum, no repeating chars, at least 1 upper and 1 lower case char, at least 1 special symbol, change every 90 days, can't be too similar to last 10(!) passwords). Okay, this is a…

i solved this by putting an optical mouse on a 12 inch wall clock (laid flat under my desk). the second hand moves the mouse a little bit once a minute.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#224

Post by [deleted] »

Terr_ wrote: post #12
CoastalCoder wrote: post #7

I was surprised (perhaps I shouldn't have been) to encounter bossware-like surveilance in an interview process . About 6 months ago I was interviewing with InterSystems, a company that does healthcare software. Only when I signed in for the online coding interview did I learn that they required I have a webcam on myself the whole time. I don't like using coarse language. But it was the first time I struggled to not u…

IMO there's a huge difference between "we do this because we had too many fraudulent applicants and this is a compromise compared to having you interview in-person" versus "this is representative of how the entire employment relationship will go." If the former, their fears are not unfounded: Sometimes the person who impressed you in the interview is not actually the same person who arrives for their first day of wor…

[deleted]

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#225

Post by tracker1 »

advisedwang wrote: post #197
tracker1 wrote: post #155

It's generally a good idea to separate work and personal devices. It reduces convenience and can take up more space, but definitely the way to go more often than not.

You're on work devices ~35% of your waking hours. There's still a need for dignity and privacy within that time. Working doesn't mean you become completely subject to your employer's whims those hours.

I'm not saying there isn't... It's a matter of trust, and I tend to be a bit paranoid in general. I don't trust work devices, even if working on highly sensitive or secure applications.

I limit what types of work apps I'll install on my personal phone, and try to limit personal usage of work devices.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#226

Post by Repulsion9513 »

next_xibalba wrote: post #204
Repulsion9513 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, employers ... track [workers'] movements using wearable devices 2nd paragraph of GP's link. > Abruzzo’s memo cites things like wearable devices for warehouse workers 6th paragraph of OP article. I don't think the commenter meant literal ankle bracelets. But I think that's a bit pointless. I don't think it's okay whether it is a literal ankle bracelet, or some BLE tag in their badge. Do you think some o…

> Do you think some option is okay? Yes, definitely. The distinction between a supervisor watching their employee vs. cameras + CV vs. using wearables to automate the watching seems completely arbitrary to me. Are you OK with a cab company monitoring its cars via GPS? Or a trucking company monitoring its loads via tracker? I am, and again, I find the distinction arbitrary. With one caveat–the employee is informed pri…

> The distinction between a supervisor watching their employee vs. cameras + CV vs. using wearables to automate the watching seems completely arbitrary to me.

I'd be pretty weirded out by constant camera and CV monitoring too

> Are you OK with a cab company monitoring its cars via GPS? Or a trucking company monitoring its loads via tracker?

Those are (a) not monitoring a person and (b) much more coarse than "what shelf is this person standing in front of". They tell the company that the cab driver parked, not that the cab driver took exactly 3 minutes and 33 seconds in the restroom.

I suppose my biggest concern with it is that it's measuring the wrong thing. If someone's doing as much as their coworkers even though they leaned on a shelf for 5 minutes yesterday, is that really a problem?

By comparison monitoring a car with GPS has legitimate purposes that actually advance the interests of the business.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#227

Post by ttyprintk »

Repulsion9513 wrote: post #226
next_xibalba wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think some option is okay? Yes, definitely. The distinction between a supervisor watching their employee vs. cameras + CV vs. using wearables to automate the watching seems completely arbitrary to me. Are you OK with a cab company monitoring its cars via GPS? Or a trucking company monitoring its loads via tracker? I am, and again, I find the distinction arbitrary. With one caveat–the employee is informed pri…

> The distinction between a supervisor watching their employee vs. cameras + CV vs. using wearables to automate the watching seems completely arbitrary to me. I'd be pretty weirded out by constant camera and CV monitoring too > Are you OK with a cab company monitoring its cars via GPS? Or a trucking company monitoring its loads via tracker? Those are (a) not monitoring a person and (b) much more coarse than "what she…

The fascination with ankle brackets notwithstanding (does a badge worn at the ankle count? How bout an ankle bracelet obscured in the pocket?) I hope the safety aspects dominate anything like that. How many people are in the mine? How many minutes was each employee exposed to over 90 dB?
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