Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Shipbreaking

edwardburtynsky.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 202 posts

Re: Shipbreaking

#41

Post by mschuster91 »

throw383y8 wrote: post #37
TrackerFF wrote: post #29

One of my previous (job) tasks was to monitor larger vessels, and analyze where they'd end up getting torn apart. Turns out western shipping companies don't like paying western prices for that kind of work, and try to sneak the vessels down to India, Bangladesh, etc. where that kind of work is much cheaper. But with cheaper prices comes a host of issues, from the environmental effects, to human workers actually perfo…

Well, West should stop dumping their garbage to the rest of the world. It is easy to have strict environmental regulations, if they are not enforced, and negative externalities are exported.

> Well, West should stop dumping their garbage to the rest of the world.

Actually the export of ships to be wrecked in Asia already is banned under EU law and international treaties - and sometimes, even company owners can and do land in jail for violating them, as it happened to Georg Eide [1].

The difficulty lies in the fact that many ships aren't registered in the EU countries, but in small countries like Antigua who don't have any incentive to help out European countries enforce their laws, and by many ships being legally hidden between layers of shell companies. It can go as far as there being a dedicated LLC in yet another tax haven per ship, and once the ship is to be wrecked, it isn't the ship itself that's being sold for wrecking (because that would be openly illegal and easy to catch and prove for authorities), but the LLC is being sold, and the lax attitude towards audit and public records requirements in the tax havens makes it very difficult to prove illegal intent.

[1] https://www.freitag.de/autoren/julia-lauter/reedereien-lasse...

Re: Shipbreaking

#43

Post by aredox »

throw383y8 wrote: post #37
TrackerFF wrote: post #29

One of my previous (job) tasks was to monitor larger vessels, and analyze where they'd end up getting torn apart. Turns out western shipping companies don't like paying western prices for that kind of work, and try to sneak the vessels down to India, Bangladesh, etc. where that kind of work is much cheaper. But with cheaper prices comes a host of issues, from the environmental effects, to human workers actually perfo…

Well, West should stop dumping their garbage to the rest of the world. It is easy to have strict environmental regulations, if they are not enforced, and negative externalities are exported.

The maritime industry, more than "the West", is a prime culprit there. Let's also mention how they skirt taxation, the use of flags of convenience, the lack of protection for crews, the matrioshka shell companies...

Re: Shipbreaking

#44

Post by MivLives »

mattlondon wrote: post #33
xyx0826 wrote: post #7

If anyone is interested in a game themed shipbreaking/dismantling things, check out Hardspace: Shipbreaker. Instead of oceanic ships one gets to take apart spaceships and sort the salvages like garbage-recycle-compost. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1161580/Hardspace_Shipbre...

I wanted to love that game. I gave it a good go, but just could not bring myself to want to play it. I think the story and narrative just put me right off of it from the very outset for some reason. I don't know why but it was a total turn-off. Also the zero-G thing made sense from a setting-perspective, but the slowly-slowly-drifting-around with limited control was just frustrating and infuriating in equal measure.…

I'm a big fan. For me a lot of the fun was mastering that movement system. The way the game is set up it incentives you to be fast and take risks. To get around faster you have to treat yourself the same as the chunks of the ship, using the tether to pull yourself in. You can also magnetize yourself to the hull and spider around like that. With upgrades and practice I was able to get most of the smallest level of ships done in one in game day.

Re: Shipbreaking

#45

Post by ggm »

I met a captain whose job was to drive these kinds of vessels up onto the strand at Cox's bazaar. He said it was the saddest job he'd ever had. A lifetime of avoiding irretrievable beaching and then.. get a good line, and ram it up a beach to a final, terminal stop.

Re: Shipbreaking

#46

Post by fifilura »

aredox wrote: post #43
throw383y8 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, West should stop dumping their garbage to the rest of the world. It is easy to have strict environmental regulations, if they are not enforced, and negative externalities are exported.

The maritime industry, more than "the West", is a prime culprit there. Let's also mention how they skirt taxation, the use of flags of convenience, the lack of protection for crews, the matrioshka shell companies...

Also the clothes industry!

The clothes brands claim to recycle cotton, but use 3rd party "recycling companies" to ship the textiles to Africa, where they just burn it in huge waste heaps. With huge environmental issues.

https://www.greenpeace.org/africa/en/blog/54589/how-fast-fas...

Computer "recycling" in Lagos/Nigeria is another topic.

Re: Shipbreaking

#47

Post by adityapatadia »

jl6 wrote: post #25
adityapatadia wrote: post #17

I lived near Alang (India) and visited the shipbreaking operations a lot. For me as a kid, the best part was these ships had olives (in brine) and we could only get them from Alang. Happy to answer any questions you guys might have.

Do you mean there was food still on board when the ships arrived?

There is a ton of food on board when ships arrive. Remember, the ships have crews and they are working when they arrive. In fact you could find all sorts of food items and kitchen equipments that you would find in a professional kitchen (a lot of restaurants in our area just got the kitchen equipment for cheap).

Re: Shipbreaking

#48

Post by jopsen »

mschuster91 wrote: post #41
throw383y8 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, West should stop dumping their garbage to the rest of the world. It is easy to have strict environmental regulations, if they are not enforced, and negative externalities are exported.

> Well, West should stop dumping their garbage to the rest of the world. Actually the export of ships to be wrecked in Asia already is banned under EU law and international treaties - and sometimes, even company owners can and do land in jail for violating them, as it happened to Georg Eide [1]. The difficulty lies in the fact that many ships aren't registered in the EU countries, but in small countries like Antigua…

We could require that ships they dock in EU harbours are owned by countries that are party to some international anti-ship breaking agreement.

But it's a lot of paperwork :)

Re: Shipbreaking

#49

Post by cies »

There was an AlJazeera docu about in the series of "Workingman's Death" that had amazing footage on a ship recycling yard in Pakistan.

They've since put it on private, sadly. See it being private here:

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/working-mans-death/2012/1/...

If you are interested in this, you may want to ask them to make it public again as the quality was absolutely stunning. Good interviews. Really getting into the skin of the workers lives there.

Re: Shipbreaking

#50

Post by adityapatadia »

boppo1 wrote: post #26
adityapatadia wrote: post #17

I lived near Alang (India) and visited the shipbreaking operations a lot. For me as a kid, the best part was these ships had olives (in brine) and we could only get them from Alang. Happy to answer any questions you guys might have.

- I've heard these breaking yards are very toxic. Do you have any memory of this? - olives in brine? Like leftover food supplies and somehow that was a staple? - What was the visit like? Stand on a platform and watch? Guided tour? Freedom to run amok & don't get in the way/yourself killed? - What were the local opinions on the industry?

- There are all sorts of toxins on the ships. Crude oil which drives the ship is one component but the government asks to get rid of it first as long as the ship arrives. Next big one is asbestos which is abundant and not removed by the government. It lies around. I am sure there would be more of them

- Yeah olives in brine in a sealed food tin. We did not eat a lot of fish back then but there were food tins of all sorts on those ships. I personally only picked olives.

- A visit could be arranged if you knew anyone who managed the shipbreaking. If the ship is not broken yet, they show you how to climb the ship (mostly vertical steel ladders). If the breaking has started, they don't allow you to climb the ship but then you can roam around the site and inspect all the goods removed from the ship and buy it at whatever price u feel.

- Local population was not that educated. People did not take the businesses as badly as we treat them online. They feel it's a normal industry like anything else and gives employment so they are mostly fine with it. If some worker loses their life (a few do every year) the families are compensated to the tune of $1000 to $2000 and life goes on. (sad I know)

Post reply on HN