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Stuck due to “knowing too much”

programmers.stackexchange.com

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Re: Stuck due to “knowing too much”

#101

Post by daivd »

spolsky wrote: post #50
frankc wrote: post #7

The moderation on programmers.stackexchange.com is completely overbearing. How can a question about analysis paralysis be closed for off-topic? If stackoverflow is for technical question/answer, what is the point the linked stackexchange if not for discussion of a common programmer problem like this? I see stuff like this closed all time time and it's really annoying.

This is a rambling discussion, which Stack Exchange is not really intended for. There are lots of good places to have rambling discussions. We focus on answerable questions with specific answers, not long-winded, open-ended conversation starters. There are plenty of other sites for long-winded, open-ended conversation starters, including Reddit and Hacker News. After a decade or so of operating sites for programmers…

I agree that you need to keep a direction for SE, but there is one type of open-ended conversation starters that often works really well there - the list. E.g "What feature would you like to see in C++15 (or whatever the next one will be called)?", "What is your favourite bit twiddling trick?", "What is your favourite language outside the TIOBE top-20 and why?", etc. With one list item per answer and the help of the voting structure, those tend to produce interesting reading.

Re: Stuck due to “knowing too much”

#102

Post by TeMPOraL »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #13
frankc wrote: post #7

The moderation on programmers.stackexchange.com is completely overbearing. How can a question about analysis paralysis be closed for off-topic? If stackoverflow is for technical question/answer, what is the point the linked stackexchange if not for discussion of a common programmer problem like this? I see stuff like this closed all time time and it's really annoying.

Ditto for StackOverflow itself? I just can't understand why so often a really valuable topic that collects insightful answers gets closed up because of not fitting some template. Also, I don't get the idea of "protected questions" - the ones marked by: "This question is protected to prevent "thanks!", "me too!", or spam answers by new users. To answer it, you must have earned at least 10 reputation on this site." Wha…

recursive, marcusf, bp_: thanks for clearing that out for me.

Re: Stuck due to “knowing too much”

#103

Post by helper-method »

pooriaazimi wrote: post #2

I submitted it because it's exactly how I feel lately, and would like to know what others think about it. My current (personal/academic) project involves Node.js, (Iced)CoffeeScript, MongoDB (with Mangoose), PhantomJS, Mocha, Neo4j, Nutch, Solr, Hadoop and Mahout. All of them are new technologies and are changing rapidly and daily, and I find new stuff every day that forces me to change my APIs and the way I do thing…

A month ago I finished a project for university, involving Node.js - nothing more. At the beginning, I've started with Node.js, mongoDB, socket.io. express and connect. Half way through the project, I realized I would never be able to deliver in time. So I started to cut out technologies... first mongoDB, socket.io, express, and in the end, even connect. Even dealing with Node alone, I had a hard time finishing my project... but I did. I still got quite a good grade because in contrast to my fellow students, I was able to deliver.

Re: Stuck due to “knowing too much”

#104

Post by bp_ »

wpietri wrote: post #91
bp_ wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fun" questions are bumped over and over again; thus, they accrue ALL the votes and farm ALL the badges. They're just constant noise on the homepage.

It's not like there's some limited quantity of votes or badges. Or that there's too much fun in the world. So the only reasonable complaint there is that the home page shouldn't have them. Gosh, could there be a technical solution for that?

Time however is a finite resource and it is effectively wasted on 'fun' questions. Every 'fun' question steals time off the actual Q&A content that is the whole point of SE.

Hiding stuff that doesn't below under the rug doesn't make the problem go away, fixing the problem does.

In a gamification environment moreover you need to make sure that the rewards are given for activities you want users to do more of. Participation in 'fun' questions is not one such thing. Since they get ALL the votes etc. they naturally attract more of the same 'fun' questions.

No, those 'fun' questions just have to go.

Re: Stuck due to “knowing too much”

#105

Post by JohnMcG »

bp_ wrote: post #104
wpietri wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like there's some limited quantity of votes or badges. Or that there's too much fun in the world. So the only reasonable complaint there is that the home page shouldn't have them. Gosh, could there be a technical solution for that?

Time however is a finite resource and it is effectively wasted on 'fun' questions. Every 'fun' question steals time off the actual Q&A content that is the whole point of SE. Hiding stuff that doesn't below under the rug doesn't make the problem go away, fixing the problem does. In a gamification environment moreover you need to make sure that the rewards are given for activities you want users to do more of. Particip…

This is the fallacy that's driving this -- the assumption that people have two choices about how to spend their time and energy:

1. "Fun" SO / SE questions. 2. Serious SO /SE questions.

Given this, of course you want to encourage people to choose Option 2 as much as possible.

But there's also...

3. Do something else completely unrelated to SO / SE.

Re: Stuck due to “knowing too much”

#106

Post by wpietri »

bp_ wrote: post #104
wpietri wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like there's some limited quantity of votes or badges. Or that there's too much fun in the world. So the only reasonable complaint there is that the home page shouldn't have them. Gosh, could there be a technical solution for that?

Time however is a finite resource and it is effectively wasted on 'fun' questions. Every 'fun' question steals time off the actual Q&A content that is the whole point of SE. Hiding stuff that doesn't below under the rug doesn't make the problem go away, fixing the problem does. In a gamification environment moreover you need to make sure that the rewards are given for activities you want users to do more of. Particip…

Time is not a finite resource in this context.

Time is variable with participation. By driving me off through closing and deleting things that don't fit your personal vision, you have reduced the amount of total work time available. Not just for the fun things, but for all things.

Gamification points are also not finite. But if you are really concerned with over-rewarding things that are too gosh-darned fun, just stop rewarding them. It's an easy fix. E.g., instead of marking a question closed, you mark it as just-for-fun; points stop accruing.

I guess what you could be saying is that time is finite for some particular group of people. In which case, you've introduced an us-vs-them dynamic, and are basically declaring that the system is about serving the desires of the in group, rather than all participants or all readers. In which case: have fun with your bat and ball.

Re: Stuck due to “knowing too much”

#107

Post by jaydles »

wpietri wrote: post #40
angdis wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that very often interesting topics get closed, they DO HAVE a good reason for doing so. The intent of all the stack-exchange sites is to provide a high-quality resource of _answers_ for specific _questions_. If "the answer" to a question ends up being a divergent discussion, then not closing responses invites more of these types of questions. Over time that will subvert the intent of stack-exchange. The…

Honestly, the original intent of a startup almost doesn't mater. What a business does is always an intersection of what the producers and the consumers want. If users want something divergent but reasonable, the answer shouldn't be, "Well, fuck you then." The right response is, "Boy, that's a a great opportunity." As proof, look at Friendster. They owned the social networking space before Facebook even existed. But i…

Um, the MySpace reference seems to highlight Joel and others' point: practically limitless user choice on MySpace turned it into such a boundless cacophony of gangsta rapping cat gifs that it was noisy and unusable, and got devoured by Facebook's "express yourself within our clean, limited-styled approach". It's a bit like Apple's thinking: I know you want true multitasking and dancing wallpaper, but that tells me you'll use it if I give it to you, and I know you really don’t want battery life that is measuresd in standby minutes. Since most people aren't willing to have their phone die after 4 hours of use in exchange for more whimsical, athletic wallpaper, their aporoach was to limit you to what most people would really want if they weighed all the tradeoffs and consequences.

Re: Stuck due to “knowing too much”

#108

Post by JohnMcG »

bp_ wrote: post #88
TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto for StackOverflow itself? I just can't understand why so often a really valuable topic that collects insightful answers gets closed up because of not fitting some template. Also, I don't get the idea of "protected questions" - the ones marked by: "This question is protected to prevent "thanks!", "me too!", or spam answers by new users. To answer it, you must have earned at least 10 reputation on this site." Wha…

Most of the time protection kicks in _because_ the question has received many "thanks!", "me too!", or spam answers by new users. Indeed, the third deleted answer on any question automatically triggers protection.

Thanks! Me too! :)

Re: Stuck due to “knowing too much”

#109

Post by bironran »

jaydles wrote: post #107
wpietri wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the original intent of a startup almost doesn't mater. What a business does is always an intersection of what the producers and the consumers want. If users want something divergent but reasonable, the answer shouldn't be, "Well, fuck you then." The right response is, "Boy, that's a a great opportunity." As proof, look at Friendster. They owned the social networking space before Facebook even existed. But i…

Um, the MySpace reference seems to highlight Joel and others' point: practically limitless user choice on MySpace turned it into such a boundless cacophony of gangsta rapping cat gifs that it was noisy and unusable, and got devoured by Facebook's "express yourself within our clean, limited-styled approach". It's a bit like Apple's thinking: I know you want true multitasking and dancing wallpaper, but that tells me yo…

"Shhh, child. Mother knows best." That's why a massvie amount of apple mobile devices jailbreak them, why their competitor has aimed enormous traction, right? At least be honest about the it - it's your aesthetic taste that interests you, that'll be offended, not someone else's. If your going to pull a Steve Jobs, just say so. It's a valid (and successful) point of view, but it's not a universal truth.

Re: Stuck due to “knowing too much”

#110

Post by bozho »

bp_ wrote: post #85
bozho wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think leaving the few doznes of fun questions hurts. Now some of the most linked funny "threads" are gone, and we hope someone has a backup. Apart from that, I agree - it's Q&A, not /r/funny, not a discussion forum. Though I haven't seen that many questions that aim to ignite such discussions.

"Fun" questions are bumped over and over again; thus, they accrue ALL the votes and farm ALL the badges. They're just constant noise on the homepage.

They were locked and protected - no one could change them. But they were recently deleted
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