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Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

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Re: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

#251

Post by howbadisthat »

crazygringo wrote: post #84
infotainment wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s definitely sketchy (classic OpenAI) But my question is: is what they did actually illegal? Can someone copyright their own voice?

Yes, absolutely illegal. You don't need to copyright anything, you simply own the rights your own likeness -- your visual appearance and your voice. A company can't take a photo from your Facebook and plaster it across an advertisement for their product without you giving them the rights to do that. And if you're a known public figure, this includes lookalikes and soundalikes as well. You can't hire a ScarJo imperson…

Scarlet owns the voice of a stranger that happens to sound like her? That seems absurd.

Just find someone who sounds like her, then hire them for the rights to their voice.

Re: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

#252

Post by not2b »

cortesoft wrote: post #164
not2b wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that it matches up pretty much exactly with the Bette Midler and Tom Waits cases, where courts ruled against companies using soundalikes after the person they really wanted turned them down. Doesn't matter if they hired a soundalike actress rather than clone her voice, it still violates her rights.

I am guessing this is only because they first tried to hire the originals before hiring sound-alikes... otherwise, would it mean that if your voice sounds similar to someone else, you can't do voice work?

Good voice actors can do a whole range of voices, including imitating many different people. The cases where someone got in trouble are where there's misrepresentation. If it goes to court, there's discovery, and if the OpenAI people gave specific instructions to the voice actor to imitate Scarlett Johansson, after denying it, there could be big trouble. We don't know that, but it looks likely given how they first approached her and how they seemed to be going for something like the "Her" film.

Re: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

#253

Post by dragonwriter »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #224
anon373839 wrote: post #62

Well, that statement lays out a damning timeline: - OpenAI approached Scarlett last fall, and she refused. - Two days before the GPT-4o launch, they contacted her agent and asked that she reconsider. (Two days! This means they already had everything they needed to ship the product with Scarlett’s cloned voice.) - Not receiving a response, OpenAI demos the product anyway, with Sam tweeting “her” in reference to Scarle…

I wouldn't necessarily call that damning. "Soundalikes" are very common in the ad industry. For example, a car company approached the band sigur ros to include some of their music in a car commercial. Sigur ros declined. A few months later the commercial airs with a song that sounds like an unreleased sigur ros song, but really they just paid a composer to make something that sounds like sigur ros, but isn't. So mayb…

> I wouldn't necessarily call that damning. "Soundalikes" are very common in the ad industry.

As are disclaimers that celebrity voices are impersonated when there is additional context which makes it likely that the voice would be considered something other than a mere soundalike, like direct reference to a work in which the impersonated celebrity was involved as part of the same publicity campaign.

And liability for commercial voice appropriation, even by impersonation, is established law in some jurisdictions, including California.

Re: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

#254

Post by rockemsockem »

signal11 wrote: post #110
aaronharnly wrote: post #11

Well, this confirms that OpenAI have been shooting from the hip, not that we needed much confirmation. The fact that they repeatedly tried to hire Johansson, then went ahead and made a soundalike while explicitly describing that they were trying to make it be like her voice in the movie … is pretty bad for them.

OpenAI claimed they hired a different professional actor who performed using her own voice [1]. If so, I suspect they’ll be okay in a court of law — having a voice similar to a celebrity isn’t illegal. It’ll likely cheese off actors and performers though. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2024/05/20/openai-sa...

It's almost certainly not legal exactly because of the surrounding context of openai trying to hire her along with the "her" tweet.

There's not a lot of precedent around voice impersonation, but there is for a very, very similar case against Ford

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midler_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

Re: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

#255

Post by rockemsockem »

nickthegreek wrote: post #114
crazygringo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, absolutely illegal. You don't need to copyright anything, you simply own the rights your own likeness -- your visual appearance and your voice. A company can't take a photo from your Facebook and plaster it across an advertisement for their product without you giving them the rights to do that. And if you're a known public figure, this includes lookalikes and soundalikes as well. You can't hire a ScarJo imperson…

If they didn’t use her actual voice for the training, didn’t hire voice talent to imitate her, didnt pursue her for a voice contract, didn’t make a reference to the movie in which she voices an AI, I feel OpenAI would have been on more stable legal footing. But they aren’t playing with a strong hand now and folded fast.

You're 100% correct and there's precedent

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midler_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

Re: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

#256

Post by not2b »

wilg wrote: post #237
recursive wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> would it mean that if your voice sounds similar to someone else, you can't do voice work? Maybe only when the director's instructions are "I want you to sound like XYZ".

Of course, surely you can do this if you're playing a character, such as impersonating Trump or Obama or an actor on SNL?

Yes, parody's fine when it's clearly parody. But if you try to pretend that Trump or Obama (rather than an impersonator) is endorsing a product, you're in trouble.

Re: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

#257

Post by callalex »

crimsoneer wrote: post #122
nickthegreek wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement from scarlet really changed my perspective. I use and loved the Sky voice and I did feel it sounded a little like her, but moreover it was the best of their voice offerings. I was mad when they removed it. But now I’m mad it was ever there to begin with. This timeline makes it clear that this wasn’t a coincidence and maybe not even a hiring of an impressionist (which is where things get a little more w…

But it's clearly not her voice right? The version that's been on the app for a year just isn't. Like, it clearly intending to be slightly reminiscent of her, but it's also very clearly not. Are we seriously saying we can't make voices that are similar to celebrities, when not using their actual voice?

I think we should all be held to the standard of “Weird” Al Yankovic. In personal matters consent is important.

Re: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

#258

Post by romwell »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #224
anon373839 wrote: post #62

Well, that statement lays out a damning timeline: - OpenAI approached Scarlett last fall, and she refused. - Two days before the GPT-4o launch, they contacted her agent and asked that she reconsider. (Two days! This means they already had everything they needed to ship the product with Scarlett’s cloned voice.) - Not receiving a response, OpenAI demos the product anyway, with Sam tweeting “her” in reference to Scarle…

I wouldn't necessarily call that damning. "Soundalikes" are very common in the ad industry. For example, a car company approached the band sigur ros to include some of their music in a car commercial. Sigur ros declined. A few months later the commercial airs with a song that sounds like an unreleased sigur ros song, but really they just paid a composer to make something that sounds like sigur ros, but isn't. So mayb…

Sorry, that's apples-to-pizzas comparison. You're conflating work and identity.

There's an ocean of difference between mimicking the style of someone's art in an original work, and literally cloning someone's likeness for marketing/business reasons.

You can hire someone to make art in the style of Taylor Swift, that's OK.

You can't start selling Taylor Swift figurines by the same principle.

What Sam Altman did, figuratively, was giving out free T-Shirts featuring a face that is recognized as Taylor Swift by anyone who knows her.

Re: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

#259

Post by octopoc »

mmh0000 wrote: post #73
PixelPaul wrote: post #9

I am really not liking this Sam guy and how he does things. He has an attitude of “my way and only my way, and I don’t care what you think or do”

You don't like the sister rapist Sam Altman[1][2]? Seems like everybody should LOVE this guy! [1] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/QDczBduZorG4dxZiW/sam-altman... [2] https://www.hackingbutlegal.com/p/statement-by-annie-altman-...

> "Sam and Jack, I know you remember my Torah portion was about Moses forgiving his brothers. “Forgive them father for they know not what they’ve done” Sexual, physical, emotional, verbal, financial, and technological abuse. Never forgotten."

That is...not a pretty picture. We desperately need someone else at the helm of OpenAI.

Re: Statement from Scarlett Johansson on the OpenAI "Sky" voice

#260

Post by ncr100 »

npunt wrote: post #129
anon373839 wrote: post #62

Well, that statement lays out a damning timeline: - OpenAI approached Scarlett last fall, and she refused. - Two days before the GPT-4o launch, they contacted her agent and asked that she reconsider. (Two days! This means they already had everything they needed to ship the product with Scarlett’s cloned voice.) - Not receiving a response, OpenAI demos the product anyway, with Sam tweeting “her” in reference to Scarle…

When people cheat on (relatively) small things, it's usually an indication they'll cheat on big things too

Stealing someone's identity is indeed one of those "big things".
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