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How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

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Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#51
post #15

Years of experience is a farce typically made up by HR folks that have zero understanding or clue of the detail's they're hiring for. Case in point for people looking for "10+ years of rails experience." Secret tip: 1) Apply anyways. I got jobs just by showing interest and a willingness to learn anything. 2) Build cool, publicly usable and visible projects. Show your versatility to build and ship different kinds of p…

> Case in point for people looking for "10+ years of rails experience."

"10 years of Rails and other object-oriented web development experience". (Or something along those lines to get past the HR filter.)

Sometimes requirements get mangled somewhere between the hiring manager and the recruiter placing the ad. But there are also a lot of phony ads out there, and I'd probably ignore a "10+ years of rails" one.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree, though I will caveat that many companies, mostly larger ones, have the vast majority of resumes funnelled through HR. HR may be much more inclined to just toss a resume that doesn't check every box that was listed as a "requirement" for the job than a hiring manager actually would. Of course, that may fall under the "it's probably not a company that you want" category, but it is well worth noting.

Which is why you don't go through HR. Every piece of hiring advice from a reputable source will tell you to find out who the person is making the decision and go to them rather than firing a resume to jobs@example.com. As patio11 said, "resumes are an institution created to mean that no one has to read resumes." [1] [1]: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

I've had experience in the past being referred for a job by someone on the inside, and still getting turned away by HR for undisclosed reasons. In some companies, even if someone wants to hire you specifically, HR still gets in the way.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#53
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the OP missed the bigger point, which is that knowledge comes at various speeds based on an individuals ability to absorb learning, but experience comes from hours invested and the variety of situations experienced. The OP seems to have conflated the concept that someone asking for a certain number of years of experience are looking for a particular subject matter knowledge level, when they are really looking…

Your argument is unconvincing. It takes certain skills to be an effective "intermediate software developer." (Here I use the word skills very generically, so in particular it includes the things that you call experience. ) If a hiring manager has found that many people have those skills after 3 years of work, it is probably true that some people have those skills after 2 years of work. Therefore: the OP might have th…

On the other hand, I think giving a range to 3-7 years implies that many people have, after 3 years of work, the skills that others have after 7 years of work. It's not unreasonable to say 3 is a stretch and 2 is right out.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#54
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the OP missed the bigger point, which is that knowledge comes at various speeds based on an individuals ability to absorb learning, but experience comes from hours invested and the variety of situations experienced. The OP seems to have conflated the concept that someone asking for a certain number of years of experience are looking for a particular subject matter knowledge level, when they are really looking…

Your argument is unconvincing. It takes certain skills to be an effective "intermediate software developer." (Here I use the word skills very generically, so in particular it includes the things that you call experience. ) If a hiring manager has found that many people have those skills after 3 years of work, it is probably true that some people have those skills after 2 years of work. Therefore: the OP might have th…

The real answer, which is alluded to in your post, is that the years requirement is simply a mechanism to reduce risk and blame for the person hiring you. There are a few things to consider in these situations:

1. He is already being interviewed despite satisfying the years experience requirement. This means they are willing to ignore that requirement. (or I misread this and he never made it to an interview)

2. All new hires have a ramp up period. This costs money and a failed hire can be costly.

3. A hiring manager (or whoever has the final say) is the person who will ultimately take the blame for any failed hire.

Considering the above, there is really only one question that needs to be satisfied in the mind of the employer for any "inexperienced" candidate to get a job:

- Is the risk of hiring this person lower than that of all other candidates?

When you try to answer that question, you get a clear understanding of where the years requirement fits in and how it effects the go/no go decision. So let's see what risk factors are normally vetted out during interviews:

1. Skills - Can he do the job? (the well roundedness part of the answer falls here) Let's make the assumption that he can so the answer is yes.

2. Personality - Does he fit in with the team? (conflict resolution and all that other stuff in the SO post falls into here) Let's make another assumption that he can so the answer is yes.

3. Will he flake out? - This is where experience factors in heavily. Evaluating someone with very little work history makes this impossibly hard to get correct. With longer resumes, it is easier to have high confidence in making this judgement. 3 years is generally enough time to see if the candidate either stayed with one company for a long time or stayed at 2 companies for a long time. This is usually a good indicator that the candidate worked out well and can be trusted to contribute in the long run. This is also why jumping too many jobs in a short period of time (or over a career) is generally considered a bad thing. It makes you a very high risk hire.

When you are asked personal questions (where do you see yourself in 5 years, what do you do in your free time, etc), this is where you are given a chance to alleviate their concerns. Questions about prior work experience are also used to vet out a candidate's flakiness. Even someone with tons of experience can fail this part of the interview in which case they would also get rejected. Low experience candidates are simply starting with a -10 buff.

So to answer the OP's questions:

1. How can I overcome the assumption that I do not have the skills required because I do not have the "right" number of years of experience?

He must minimize the "Will he flake out factor?" Either ace the "flake out" part of the interview OR show yourself to be so outstanding with regards to skills and/or personality that they ignore your potential flakiness. The best way to do this is via skills. You can't be just better than your peers. You must be better than your seniors. Either show this through outside work (personal projects, open source contributions, etc.) or by impressing them with your knowledge. Based on what the OP wrote, he seems capable but doesn't STAND OUT stand out. The personality route is also viable but that is much harder to swing unless you know people in the company already.

In the case he didn't even make it to an interview, then he must rely solely on displaying his skills via his resume. Outside projects and open source contributions with a personal website (or a link to code repos) is the best way to accomplish this. If his resume looks generic, then it's no wonder he didn't make it to an interview.

2. Are skills directly proportional to years of experience?

No. I know some people who have been programming since they were 10. Coming out of college, they clearly have outstanding skills but zero experience. But as stated above, this is not the real reason why he was rejected (he should actually ask for feedback assuming he made it to an interview round).

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#55
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every job I've had in the last 7 years has been from an employer or recruiter coming to me. Shooting off a resume through the typical HR stack is almost always a crap shoot.

I don't think that everyone can claim to have companies beating down their door.

If you write code and you don't have recruiters contacting you through LinkedIn, then you probably live in a city with a bad market (and you should move) or you don't have a thorough LinkedIn account.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#56

It's funny. Younger people on HN complain that it's impossible to get hired because they don't have experience. Older people on HN complain that it's impossible to get hired because they aren't a fresh out of college 20 something who has time to code 24/7.

It is very possible for both those statements to be true.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#57
post #54
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is unconvincing. It takes certain skills to be an effective "intermediate software developer." (Here I use the word skills very generically, so in particular it includes the things that you call experience. ) If a hiring manager has found that many people have those skills after 3 years of work, it is probably true that some people have those skills after 2 years of work. Therefore: the OP might have th…

The real answer, which is alluded to in your post, is that the years requirement is simply a mechanism to reduce risk and blame for the person hiring you. There are a few things to consider in these situations: 1. He is already being interviewed despite satisfying the years experience requirement. This means they are willing to ignore that requirement. (or I misread this and he never made it to an interview) 2. All n…

Do hirers give feedback? When I was suddenly dropped from dropbox's interview process, and asked for feedback, I didn't get a response until my friend working there went and bugged HR, and then the response that did get sent was "we have no comment".

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#58
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real answer, which is alluded to in your post, is that the years requirement is simply a mechanism to reduce risk and blame for the person hiring you. There are a few things to consider in these situations: 1. He is already being interviewed despite satisfying the years experience requirement. This means they are willing to ignore that requirement. (or I misread this and he never made it to an interview) 2. All n…

Do hirers give feedback? When I was suddenly dropped from dropbox's interview process, and asked for feedback, I didn't get a response until my friend working there went and bugged HR, and then the response that did get sent was "we have no comment".

Sometimes. I interviewed a LOT out of college and often made it to 2nd and 3rd rounds. Every time I got rejected, I would pop an email to the HR rep and ask for feedback along with something like "thanks for the opportunity." Maybe 1 in 10 would respond and some 1 in 15 would actually give me feedback on how I did. So while it's a fairly low chance shot in the dark, you don't have much to lose by asking. Just be polite.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#59
Most of the answers here and on stack exchange clearly show that the person answering has never been (or lots of time has passed since) in this position. I have been in this situation lots of times. Not only I didn't have the years, by I also didn't have the education. And have learned how to "beat" the system:

1. Be really good. You can't fake that. 2. In your resume, show your real skills and interests. Write details. Lots of details. But only details that are of interest to the current position. 3. Don't have a "generic" CV. Write one specifically for every other position you are applying to. 4. Do not be shy and provide references to hobby projects, freelance work and your ambitions (and also dreams). 5. Be humble. Never make comparisons with anyone. Just talk about yourself.

I have been in a hiring position lately, and I can see why this succeeded with me. Most of the candidates send shitty CVs. One can't judge them from the CV. For such candidates you can only guess from the years of experience. Don't be that guy. If you send me a CV that shows passion, knowledge, culture and determination, I won't look at the years of experience at all.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#60
This will be buried but I'll throw it out there anyway.

In the UK it's actually illegal to specify a minimum number of years of experience. The issue is that no-one enforces the rule unless someone kicks up a stink. In the UK, if you are rejected for a position implicitly because you didn't have the minimum number of years of experience you can claim compensation through the employment tribunal on the grounds of age discrimination.

UK law is black and white about the issue and I'm personally sick and tired of seeing employers and recruiters blatantly and ignorantly flouting the law.

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