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AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

julienposture.substack.com

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Re: AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

#41
I’ve been using generative AI in my art for a good few years now and have a few thoughts on this.

Yes it’s trivial to train a model on a particular style, I’ve done it many times, including on my own art. It can make things that look pretty good!

But it can’t make anything great, not without a lot of luck or creative input from the user.

It can make something that looks similar to a style, but it can’t explain what makes that style good, why it should be chosen over another and the thinking behind it. An artist would have no problem answering that.

As I understand it, generative AI is a sort of average machine, in that if you ask it for a picture of a dog, it’ll give you the most average result for the prompt, model and whatever randomness there is in the system.

Therefore, the lowest common denominators - stock photos, Corporate Memphis, clipart etc are in big trouble. AI images don’t need to be great to displace them, just good enough. Average.

However, for creatives, AI tools are a wonderful opportunity. It’s not everyday a brand-new medium comes along.

When photography arrived, it was possible to make a perfect representation of something at the click of a button. Instead of killing art, it unleashed a wave of creativity. Art no longer needed to be about drawing pictures of things or people and could get more abstract and experimental.

So with AI. It won’t kill creativity, it’s just another creative tool. I’ve had a lot of fun over the last few years exploring what it can do, and it’ll be exciting to see how art changes with its arrival.

Re: AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

#42

Related: "Invasive Diffusion: How one unwilling illustrator found herself turned into an AI model" [0]. It's astonishingly simple to train both LoRAs and Embeddings nowadays -- if you combine it with tech like ControlNet, you can more or less have direct control over the illustration as well (see this example I converted to Hollie Megert's style with barely any effort [1] using the model from [0]) -- but FWIW I was p…

That last part is the issue. Once the material is released publicly there is zero way to prevent it from being used for training. I like the idea of these things but they're predicated on theft and exploitation.

There are active countermeasures in the form of Glaze/Nightshade, but I don't know how effective those turned out to be in practice.

Re: AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

#43

Related: "Invasive Diffusion: How one unwilling illustrator found herself turned into an AI model" [0]. It's astonishingly simple to train both LoRAs and Embeddings nowadays -- if you combine it with tech like ControlNet, you can more or less have direct control over the illustration as well (see this example I converted to Hollie Megert's style with barely any effort [1] using the model from [0]) -- but FWIW I was p…

Corporate Memphis seems to have that very "flat almost clip-art" style to it. Generative art is ideal for this type of stock art use case where 90% is simply good enough for the vast majority of situations. I feel like the gig economy (things like Fiverr) are unfortunately going to get absolutely crushed by generative art systems since most of their customers aren't that particular and are likely fine with anything t…

Has GenAI _really_ been good enough in stock art use cases, or are they given temporal leniency? I feel they're mentioned too often for that to be the case.

Re: AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dignified belief in the supremacy of human ingenuity will be cold comfort to the young artists struggling to find employment

Yep, you're right. But idk why you phrased that like it's a rebuttal to my criticism. This is another failure of our economic system, for incentivising the owners of art production to churn out literal mindless slop to cut costs, instead of safe guarding artists and creators for the sake of their intrinsic value to society and humanity. Since, of course, they must eternally seek to reproduce capital to the detriment…

Well your argument is admonishing tech bros as if they don't get it, but generally they do get it completely in this context. The goal here is not replacing great art. It's replacing art assets.

Comes off as naive and distracting to me.

Re: AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

#45
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate Memphis seems to have that very "flat almost clip-art" style to it. Generative art is ideal for this type of stock art use case where 90% is simply good enough for the vast majority of situations. I feel like the gig economy (things like Fiverr) are unfortunately going to get absolutely crushed by generative art systems since most of their customers aren't that particular and are likely fine with anything t…

Has GenAI _really_ been good enough in stock art use cases, or are they given temporal leniency? I feel they're mentioned too often for that to be the case.

[deleted]

Re: AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

#46

Related: "Invasive Diffusion: How one unwilling illustrator found herself turned into an AI model" [0]. It's astonishingly simple to train both LoRAs and Embeddings nowadays -- if you combine it with tech like ControlNet, you can more or less have direct control over the illustration as well (see this example I converted to Hollie Megert's style with barely any effort [1] using the model from [0]) -- but FWIW I was p…

> However, I do think there needs to be some kind of protection from having your 'style' commoditized without consent, using unauthorized images of your own art. 1) Hire artist to copy the style for 10 images 2) Train model on those problem solved. If you choose "using your images specifically" to steal your style as the hill you want to die on, then you're going to find it's a very useless line of defense.

Just because you hired artists to copy someone else's work doesn't mean your model isn't the result of copyright infringement, indeed it makes it somewhat more obvious imo.

Maybe that would be Fair Use, but things like purpose, weak transformation (in the hired artists copies), competition against the original, and business motive would all suggest it relies on non-Fair Use copying.

I don't know why you think something that involves direct copying shouldn't be a 'hill to die on' for a copyright infringement claim?

Re: AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

#47

I’ve been using generative AI in my art for a good few years now and have a few thoughts on this. Yes it’s trivial to train a model on a particular style, I’ve done it many times, including on my own art. It can make things that look pretty good! But it can’t make anything great, not without a lot of luck or creative input from the user. It can make something that looks similar to a style, but it can’t explain what m…

As a follow on: One of my friends is a professional illustrator and was concerned about the impact of AI on their work.

As a demonstration I trained some models on their styles. They were worried right up until they saw the output. Yes, it looked superficially like their work, but the slightest glance showed it to be absolute crap. Anyone who would consider using the AI version of their work over commissioning the actual artist would absolutely get what they paid for.

However, they have found the models to be very useful in exploring concepts and compositions, becoming an essential part of their creative process.

Re: AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

#48

Please is there anything like this for writing? I am serious, I do write and want to experiment. Please would you have any suggestions for me? Thanks for your time.

Writing is the simplest of all. Really trivial actually. I create new styles almost every other day. See the latest entry on my blog for a style i created last week, and this video [1].

Different styles can be created by taking advantage of the context window.

1) Take some random style of a writer, a blogger, or even a website.

2) Generate some examples you may like, and annotate them, something like: Example Chapters.

3) Put the machine to describe the text of Example Chapters.

4) Select some keyword descriptions, and ask to imitate the writer's/blogger's style plus the keywords.

5) Generate some more examples, and delete the previous ones. Now it will start converging a lot better.

6) Ask the machine to use the Example Chapters as a reference, and DO NOT REPEAT examples. Do not repeat has to be written exactly like that.

7) Generate 1 or 2 chapters of your desired text, by generating 10 different drafts, and stitch them together by editing them a lot by hand. That's plenty difficult and time consuming.

8) As soon as you have 2 good pages of the text you like, delete the examples you do not need them anymore.

9) Ask the machine to continue the 2 Chapters it has written, but it doesn't actually need to continue something. Just ask to to write the story, but in the prompt it has to be asked to continue.

10) It is best the 2 Chapters of your story to have the same characters with exactly the same names as the story you want to write.

11) When you ask it to continue, obviously you continue using the same style of writer/blogger plus keywords.

It comes down to a lot of experimentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33FcIL6tFnY&pp=ygUNb3duIHN0e...

Re: AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

#49

No, two artists are the same. As an artist, if I’m not constantly pushing the boundaries of how I’m expressing myself via media then I’m just telling the audience the same thing over and over. Im not actually changing as an artist, I’m simply producing the thing regularly that is expected of me. This is 99% of professional art you find your style and then you do that over and over for money so that you can survive in…

You are presenting opinion as objective fact for a subjective medium, which is surprising to hear from an artist. This argument, and this article, are not about the "great masters" but about amateur and professional artists who find their efforts easily reproduced and outproduced by AI. These people are not protected by "This is a REAL Picasso" and some of them could lose their financial security because of it. The a…

My takeaway is that as with many of the artists, they are reacting to the philosophical no mans land that cheap computer reproduction is putting them into...From TFA:

>As I’m contemplating this Cronenberg-like transformation of the image, I can’t help to be struck by the triviality of my own work. There’s something confronting in facing a computational doppelgänger, something akin to the uncanny valley. I’m surprised at how much this affects me, even though my whole schtick is to be reflexive and critical about style, what surprises me the most is that even though the output if “objectively” a failure1, I see myself in it. But maybe what I see in the generation, what I find actually disturbing, is the part of my work that has already been objectified and commodified, the parts of my style I spent years making digestible for clients, consistent for social media, and reproducible for easy production.

This feeling is not present in artists who are not commercial artists or otherwise produce VOLUMES of similar work - because it is functionally impossible

Why?

Again, as with picasso et al... they are performing the work of an artist. Namely it is a lifetime oeuvre - not a single period - that defines an artist.

This is my point, and you can disagree, most commercial artists are not producing art, they are designing propaganda for corporations. It takes artistic skill, but it's not what I would consider relevant for the author

The author sits at the intersection of capitalism and art - that you can produce designs for money repeatedly and so predictably as to be identically imitated is proof enough for me

Nobody can reproduce or copy my art because it's PHYSICAL and hanging on my (and many others' including our own jacquesm) wall. They can try, but forgeries are very hard to do.

Re: AI doppelgänger experiment – Part 1: The training

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish we could apply that logic to software. AI is in a magical universe where we all pretend copyright isn't a thing just because we don't like it.

Do you want a world where google can sue your open source project because it utilizes it's style of coding?

Maybe? If they show you started with their code and abstracted your code from their's mechanistically, then it seems reasonable to say that you copied from their code.

If you, a person, read their code and imitated the style - assuming it to be definable as Google's style and not easily confused with the style of others (which would suggest it was not distinctive) - then yes, why not? You would have directly abstracted the essence of Google's work from them.

They should be entitled to the copyright for at least 7 years, maybe up to at most 14!

Could you expand on what you mean by "its style of coding"?

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