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How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

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Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#41
I think the answer is you don't. People are really stupid creatures who prefer to hire not based on what's best but what they feel comfortable with. This results in 95%+ of people being hired not for what is best for them but of circumstance and of well, luck.

Think about it. How many well qualified resumes out there were discarded because the hiring manager was angry their football team lost yesterday? How many were lost during the office party? Probably more then we want to know.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing the amount of assumptions and prejudices being leveraged due to the perceived young age of the person inquiring. Especially given that there is nothing to indicate that he was making a fuss of it more than asking on StackOverflow. Shockingly, some do progress at a faster rate than others. I turned in a large project that I wrote during my senior year of high school and received extremely high marks on it…

What does this have to do with my comment? My point was there is nothing to be gained by calling attention to and arguing about job requirements.

How is there not? There's an entire discussion going on about it here, and I don't think the conclusion to be drawn from it anywhere is that it's an entire waste of time. It's just another symptom of how it can be difficult to hire well and how miserably misplaced some efforts are to improve it by cheap metrics that can be both positively and negatively misleading.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#43
post #5

The top rated answer though is pretty priceless. The easy way to over come the experience requirement, is to put in the time. But the relevant response is that when you don't know what you don't know, you're not nearly as effective as you think you are. I remember being so depressed at Intel one day when I figured out I was tons smarter than this senior engineer I was working with but I didn't have a shot at his job…

The top rated answer main point is also funny as well. It reminds me of my town. They are more than willing to vote for more services and while also more than willing to pay less taxes. In the short term, it's a party but in the long term it's a disaster waiting to happen.

People want everything for free. Or in this case, people want all the success without any of the failures which lead to that success.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#44
Years of experience is an easy way for a company to justify not hiring you. If you have the skills, you likely need to improve your skill at effectively educating people of your ability.

I recently went through something like this. I wound up getting the job, but only after my recruiter pulled a few strings. As an applicant, you can't do that so it's best you improve your communication so that after that first meeting they see your spark.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#45
One of the respondents makes the point that a company can loose a lot by hiring a bad candidate, but "false negative cost a company close to nothing."

While there is truth to this, I would say it is less true when there is a labor shortage. By not hiring a good candidate when they have the chance, a company looses the revenue that candidate might have helped them earn while they spend time looking for a surer bet.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#46
post #3

As an employer, I give you this advice: Just apply. We make exceptions for smart or motivated people all the time. After all, your resume's gonna be viewed by a human who'll give it a subjective assessment. If by chance the company you're applying to is so rigid in their standards that they can only make decision based on objective measures, it's probably not a company that you want to be at.

Same boat. Some of my most impressive hires have been fresh out of the oven so to speak.

In some markets, I think it would be pretty foolish to start putting blanket 'must have +years' experience on postings. It only takes a 15 min phone call to pretty quickly judge where someone is at to proceed further or not. I'd far rather 15min of my time sourcing diamonds in the rough, than eliminating them through poor job postings.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#47
The original StackExchange thread is an interesting read. For the job applicant (any job applicant), the problem is always how to make an affirmative case that an employer ought to offer the job to you and not to someone else. The commenters on StackExchange and here on HN are mostly commenting from that perspective, that the job applicant has to figure out how to excel over other job applicants in making a strong case for being hired.

Some comments here are about the issue of how companies should hire in the general case. Because that is a frequently asked question here on HN, and because that has been the subject of much research, I'll recycle some electrons here to provide a FAQ on the general issue. The review article "The Validity and Utility of Selection Models in Personnel Psychology: Practical and Theoretical Implications of 85 Years of Research Findings"

http://mavweb.mnsu.edu/howard/Schmidt%20and%20Hunter%201998%...

sums up, current to 1998, much of the HUGE peer-reviewed professional literature on the industrial and organizational psychology devoted to business hiring practices. There are many kinds of hiring screens, such as resume reviews for job experience, telephone interviews, in-person interviews, checks for academic credentials, and so on. There is much published study research on how job applicants perform after they are hired in a wide variety of occupations.

The overall summary of the industrial psychology research in reliable secondary sources is that two kinds of job screening procedures work reasonably well (but only about at the 0.5 level, standing alone). One is a general cognitive ability test (an IQ-like test, such as the Wonderlic personnel screening test). Another is a work-sample test, where the applicant does an actual task or group of tasks like what the applicant will do on the job if hired. Each of these kinds of tests has about the same validity in screening applicants for jobs, with the general cognitive ability test better predicting success for applicants who will be trained into a new job. Neither is perfect (both miss some good performers on the job, and select some bad performers on the job), but both are better than anything else that has been tested in rigorous research, across a wide variety of occupations. So if you are hiring for your company, it's a good idea to think about how to build a work-sample test into all of your hiring processes.

For legal reasons in the United States (the same consideration does not apply in other countries), it is difficult to give job applicants a straight-up IQ test (as was commonplace in my parents' generation) as a routine part of a hiring process. The Griggs v. Duke Power, 401 U.S. 424 (1971) case in the United States Supreme Court

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=8655598674229196...

held that cognitive ability tests used in hiring that could have a "disparate impact" on applicants of some protected classes must "bear a demonstrable relationship to successful performance of the jobs for which it was used." In other words, a company that wants to use a test like the Wonderlic, or like the SAT, or like the current WAIS or Stanford-Binet IQ tests, in a hiring process had best conduct a specific validation study of the test related to performance on the job in question. Some companies do the validation study, and use IQ-like tests in hiring. Other companies use IQ-like tests in hiring and hope that no one sues (which is not what I would advise any company). Note that a brain-teaser-type test used in a hiring process might be illegal if it can be shown to have disparate impact on some job applicants and is not supported by a validation study demonstrating that the test is related to successful performance on the job. Companies outside the United States are regulated by different laws.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#48
It's funny.

Younger people on HN complain that it's impossible to get hired because they don't have experience.

Older people on HN complain that it's impossible to get hired because they aren't a fresh out of college 20 something who has time to code 24/7.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#49
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the OP missed the bigger point, which is that knowledge comes at various speeds based on an individuals ability to absorb learning, but experience comes from hours invested and the variety of situations experienced. The OP seems to have conflated the concept that someone asking for a certain number of years of experience are looking for a particular subject matter knowledge level, when they are really looking…

Your argument is unconvincing. It takes certain skills to be an effective "intermediate software developer." (Here I use the word skills very generically, so in particular it includes the things that you call experience. ) If a hiring manager has found that many people have those skills after 3 years of work, it is probably true that some people have those skills after 2 years of work. Therefore: the OP might have th…

"So for God's sake can somebody just give a good-faith answer to his question?"

I think the point of the response was the question cannot be answered.

Specifically he writes:

"How can I overcome the assumption that I do not have the skills required because I do not have the 'right' number of years of experience?"

The answer is "You cannot, it is an assumption by someone you don't know." Since he is not asking "Should I ask a friend of mine that works at this place and knows my skills put in my resume even though I don't have the 'right' number of years of experience?" We could all say "Absolutely." Referrala are great because the knowledge is first person and in depth.

Our authored followed with:

"Are skills directly proportional to years of experience?"

And the answer to that is "Yes." Is the constant the same for everyone? No. But generally some hiring manager has put out this number because he's found folks who have that land in his range of what he wants for this job. But its easily shown that someone with some experience has some sigma greater skill at the job that someone with zero experience, so it seems pointless to simply say "Yes" here.

Re: How to overcome “years of experience” requirements when applying for jobs

#50
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every job I've had in the last 7 years has been from an employer or recruiter coming to me. Shooting off a resume through the typical HR stack is almost always a crap shoot.

I don't think that everyone can claim to have companies beating down their door.

If only. I wouldn't say I have companies beating down my door, I have to put my resume on monster just like anyone else. But in my experience the best job prospects come from someone finding my resume or from someone I know referring me.
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