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Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

arxiv.org

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Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#201

Post by anon-3988 »

astrobe_ wrote: post #162

What is this obsession with making computers human-like? We can put those machine to better uses than forgetting, having biases, making subtle or gross mistakes (hello, ChatGPT) like we do. The AI that some apparently consider top-notch today is only good at powering NPCs in video games. The more serious the use-case, the more harmful it becomes. Moreover, achieving artificial consciousness is only good at fueling en…

Agreed. The calculator is not human-like, let's figure out how to humanize this! Intelligence comes in a myriad of ways. Mimicking humans will just produce a human, what's the point? I am not even sure a super intelligent "human" is even a good thing. The smartass will probably spend their intelligence betting the stock market.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#202

Post by foobarian »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #3

We don't even know whether other human beings are conscious, man. The only thing which we might say with much certainty is that things which are more "like us" along some metric are more likely to be actually conscious, and things which are less "like us" are less likely to be so. Maybe everything is conscious. Maybe nothing except one's own self. But you'll never truly know one way or another, even if humanity inven…

> We don't even know whether other human beings are conscious, man.

This is why so far the Kantian philosophy makes the most sense to me. I can tell that something is there because I am thinking it, but can't tell about any others.

The really scary thing is the question of why this particular body at this particular time. It's like when born, organisms generate a "consciousness vortex/attractor" that binds to a particular identity.

It's also interesting that sleeping or fainting pauses the consciousness, and later still ends up in the same body (unless it's like coroutines and it doesn't matter which identity ends up in the body).

We also know that removing parts of the brain can cause memories and certain features to go away.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#203

Post by fuzzfactor »

grishka wrote: post #151
mytailorisrich wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human consciousness has logically to be a product of the physical structure of human beings.

Except the "physical structure" might extend into dimensions we don't know about.

How about energy that's associated with the physical structure?

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#204

Post by ben_w »

elicksaur wrote: post #156
vixen99 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In thinking about this perennial problem it's worth bearing in mind that human beings pick up and process an immense amount of data on a continuous basis, that is currently unavailable to any LLM.

And all on an estimated 100 watts!

20 for the brain, 60-125 for the whole body depending on if you mean "normally" or "metabolic minimum".

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#205

Post by harha_ »

vinceguidry wrote: post #166
grishka wrote: post #10

For all we know, it might be that consciousness is not fully contained in the physical structure of the brain. It might as well be something that partially exists on another layer of reality we have no idea about yet.

I've heard reliable reports of Jeffrey A. Martin and his fellow research participants moving visual perception out of the eyes and the rest of the body into the surrounding environment. Literally seeing behind him. I don't think his eyes stopped working, he just moved his subjective awareness outside of his body. I found it hard to believe until I used his techniques to contain 'all of reality' into a small space (th…

You've heard "reliable records"? Can you link it/them? I can't find via search engines, I tried.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#206

Post by fuzzfactor »

_heimdall wrote: post #137
belter wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is particularly interesting specially in the context of the ways we know the human brain works. For example in Automatic writing, patients with neurological damage, can write coherent text without conscious awareness of the content. Or in cases of Aphasia where individuals can sing lyrics without consciously understanding the meaning of the words. And finally...who never, when particularly tired or worried with…

> Or in cases of Aphasia where individuals can sing lyrics without consciously understanding the meaning of the words. Hah, well maybe I have aphasia then. My whole life I've heard and even remembered lyrics while a singing along with the radio but if you asked me immediately after the song was over I couldn't tell you the words or the meaning. I hear the music being played and the sounds of the lyrics, but unless I'…

You're being "prompted" by the radio, in real time to boot.

Only when you want to, that would be a "conscious" effort, maybe not too easily emulated.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#207

Post by fuzzfactor »

Zambyte wrote: post #81
neom wrote: post #78

My mum is a shrink, and very old, and smart, and hates technology. I was talking her through how some primitive "AGI" could happen with 4o (basically just explained this: https://b.h4x.zip/agi ) That got us talking about consciousness, and at the end, she thought about it for about a minute and then said "if I can't give it lysergic acid and make it see god, it's not conscious" and went back to making her dinner.

You can give it a virtual device as the real time camera input to show it things that aren't there. That's not organic acid, but the target isn't organic consciousness.

One uncanny thing is that people have such a diverse tolerance for "fake", across a spectrum from absolute acceptance to complete rejection.

Or for things like hallucinatory perceptions of reality.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#208

Post by chrsw »

naasking wrote: post #196
monstertank wrote: post #159

I never understood this. Evolution basically says humans are conscious matter...why would that not be replicatable via an intelligent designer (humans)? Randomness created consciousness from a single cell...why would that be the most efficient solution?

Some people are convinced by p-zombies and The Knowledge Argument that not everything we experience can be reduced to matter interactions.

How is that different than saying the function of the lungs, kidneys and heart can't be reduced to matter interactions? How is the brain special?

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#209

Post by SJC_Hacker »

astrobe_ wrote: post #162

What is this obsession with making computers human-like? We can put those machine to better uses than forgetting, having biases, making subtle or gross mistakes (hello, ChatGPT) like we do. The AI that some apparently consider top-notch today is only good at powering NPCs in video games. The more serious the use-case, the more harmful it becomes. Moreover, achieving artificial consciousness is only good at fueling en…

> What is this obsession with making computers human-like?

Replacement of human labor on the cheap, the most capital intensive part of many businesses. Alternatively as a productivity multiplier of human labor.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#210

Post by fuzzfactor »

moi2388 wrote: post #178
jugg1es wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't replicate something we don't understand. The mechanism for consciousness is not understood at all right now and could actually be based on quantum effects that we haven't detected yet. It's also possible that it is only achievable in an organic machine. Until we understand how consciousness actually arises, the best we can do is a simulacrum of it.

Why not? I can replicate a book in a foreign without understanding the language?

IOW you are hardly conscious at all of what the book is about.
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