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Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

arxiv.org

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Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#101

Post by CuriouslyC »

Zambyte wrote: post #85
tomhoward wrote: post #11

I’m writing this comment so that people who want to know more about alternative theories of consciousness (to materialism/physicalism [1]) can know where to go to find well-argued positions on the topic. (To be clear, I’m not here to argue about the topic or try to persuade anyone of any position – that’s a waste of everyone’s time). I recommend seeking out discussions involving: - Federico Faggin: inventor of silico…

Julian Jaynes theory of consciousness is very interesting. At a high level, his thoery was that consciousness is A) much smaller in scope as far as what it actually is than a lot of people like to think, and B) it is not actually innate in humans, it is something we learn as we grow.

I don't see how we can learn to experience qualia. If the author means self awareness instead of consciousness that would make more sense.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#102

Post by strogonoff »

smokel wrote: post #41
strogonoff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A philosophical framework in which creating an artificial entity that is conscious and self-aware in a human-like manner is as straightforward as modeling the human brain is monistic materialism. Of course, it’s not the only framework available. Among the modern takes, Donald Hoffman’s interface theory of perception (explored in, say, his Objects of Consciousness paper[0]) is an interesting one that appears to align…

> we may have conscious software, which presumably should be granted human rights A dog (most likely) has consciousness, but no human rights.

If a chatbot obtained from an emulation of a human brain behaves in a human-like manner, and is attributed consciousness and self-awareness, good luck arguing that its consciousness is like that of a dog.

…and even if you succeed, abusing a dog in the way we abuse ML-based products would not be acceptable in any developed country.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#104

Post by dvsfish »

yreg wrote: post #52

I can accept (and to be honest even like) the idea, that consciousness somehow emerges from the complex structures in an animal brain, that there is no soul, no other planes of reality, no special quantum phenomena needed, etc. Maybe we could create a synthetic artificial conscious mind. At worst we could simulate a full human brain at whatever level is necessary. I can accept that. What's crazy to me is the followin…

One thought experiment I always find myself having is that if this is the case, does it make any difference if the network is physically larger? Not necessarily more complex, just the distances signals have to travel is bigger, say planet sized instead of brain sized. Would this system be conscious but just with a slower tick rate? Faster time perception?

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#106

Post by mgdante »

neom wrote: post #78

My mum is a shrink, and very old, and smart, and hates technology. I was talking her through how some primitive "AGI" could happen with 4o (basically just explained this: https://b.h4x.zip/agi ) That got us talking about consciousness, and at the end, she thought about it for about a minute and then said "if I can't give it lysergic acid and make it see god, it's not conscious" and went back to making her dinner.

Raising the temperature is probably a close analog to psychedelics.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#107

Post by filchermcurr »

I would be remiss if I didn't mention Steve Grand. He's been chasing this dream for many, many years. If you remember Creatures, it was his first attempt at artificial life. Sadly the computing capabilities in 1991 weren't enough to achieve anything remotely like consciousness, but he did an admirable job of simulating a simple lifeform with a basic adaptive / reactive neural network. It also has a simple biology / biochemistry to work with the brain. (Incidentally, the Creatures community is alive and well if anybody wants to check that out: https://creatures.wiki/Discord )

Steve is working on a new project, Grandroids, that hopes to imbibe creatures with imagination and forward planning. Exciting stuff! (https://creatures.wiki/Grandroids)

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#108

Post by CooCooCaCha »

danielbln wrote: post #15
grishka wrote: post #10

For all we know, it might be that consciousness is not fully contained in the physical structure of the brain. It might as well be something that partially exists on another layer of reality we have no idea about yet.

It might be a pink elefant that lives in the 7th dimension and contains every person's consciousness in the shape of a magic peanut. Or it may not.

Legitimately made me lol. Thank you for being the rational one. When topics of the mind come up even people who are normally smart and rational can turn into quacks.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#109

Post by WaltPurvis »

ryandvm wrote: post #42

Consciousness is an evolved information system requirement in all life forms that are complex enough to be capable of computationally modelling their environment, and importantly, their own place in that environment. You cannot model the world and your place in it without consciousness. Also, consciousness is not binary (present or not), it is a gradient. I am more conscious than I was this morning when I groggily op…

Not trying to be facetious: is a Roomba conscious?

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#110

Post by Barrin92 »

gokuldas011011 wrote: post #5

Yes, the beauty of nature is, there is no magic. Everything is governed by laws, when we uncover it, we can replicate it.

>Everything is governed by laws, when we uncover it, we can replicate it

Sure, but it's precisely because everything is governend by laws that you can't make it how you want. It's perfectly possible that consciousness is a specific property of organic brains rather than digital computers. I can understand the laws that govern the properties of the Golden Gate Bridge, doesn't mean I can build it out of jello.

That was precisely the misunderstood point of Searle's Chinese room by the way, that a digital algorithmic computer can emulate the work that a human mind can do even the point of being indistinguishable from it, but need not understand any of it (i.e. being conscious of it) while doing so. Or put differently that manipulation of syntax and semantics are completely orthogonal.

That's in fact very relevant in LLMs. An LLM can talk about how strawberries taste as if it was conscious, but by definition it can't genuinely have experienced it.

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