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SLR Camera Simulator

camerasim.com

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Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#61

Post by luser001 »

modoc wrote: post #12
lusr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No see you're as confused as she was :) Most zoom lenses are variable aperture, e.g. at 18mm they will open up to f/3.5 but at 55mm they will only open up to f/5.6. The simulation doesn't address this, and it can be surprising for a beginner to see the aperture changing as they zoom - they may become fixated on zooming as a way to control aperture without realising they are observing a side-effect.

Better lenses are fixed aperture though, so I don't think it's unreasonable to replicate that here. My 24-70 is 2.8 across the board.

Are you sure? When a lens claims to be f/2.8 at all zoom levels, it usually means that that the maximum aperture (i.e., minimum f-number) is f/2.8. It can do f/11 etc also.

If it is indeed a lens with just a single aperture setting, can you tell me the model number? I'm quite curious now. Thx.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#63

Post by naitbit »

lusr wrote: post #22
subhro wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lusr, that is extremely non intuitive for sure. Have you checked in Nikon addressed this in a later firmware release?

Looking at the manual you apparently don't have to half depress the shutter, just the exposure compensation button (which has an aperture symbol next to it), but other websites suggest you do have to. I'll look into it when I can see the camera in person in a few weeks.

I'm pretty sure that you don't have to touch shutter in manual mode. I have d5100 so I can make sure in the evening if you want confirmation.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#64

Post by naitbit »

kamjam wrote: post #51
ben1040 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>or press the depth of field preview button, but those are becoming rare on consumer grade hardware I bought a Nikon D5100 last summer, my first SLR since a Pentax K1000 I had for decades. The lack of a DoF preview button was a little hard for me to adjust to.

Can you expand on that a little... I'm looking to buy a D5100, is this using the LCD or the viewfinder?

I do have d5100 and I confirm that there is no DoF Preview button. You can read about it's purpose here http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/dof-button.htm If you really need this button d7000 have same sensor and does same quality photos. It allows for more control using physical buttons (in d5100 you need to use info menu to set some setting). It is also better suited then d5100 for manual lenses. That said it is also more expensive and heavier(but is also more water prove). Personally most of the time lack of DoF preview did not bother me because I either wanted as much in focus as possible(for landscapes), or only person in focus which was quite easy. Weak support for manual lenses on the other hand baited me once with out of focus picture that I did not notice until it was to late(if it is really bright outside is hard to see photo on LCD, so i just checked histogram). You can see my d5100 pictures here https://plus.google.com/100147104412340662455/photos if you are interested.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#65

Post by lusr »

Tloewald wrote: post #28
lusr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In manual mode it's not that simple from what I could glean (haven't touched a D5100 myself). You have to half depress the shutter release, simultaneously press the exposure compensation button and only then you can adjust the aperture with the command dial (otherwise you'll just change shutter speed). That's pretty crummy IMO and rather elaborate for a beginner. My D7000 is more straightforward since it has a separa…

Why do this in manual mode?

Why not? Every pre-digital photographer did manual exposures. It teaches you to pay attention to your environment, and ultimately, I believe, makes you a better photographer because it develops your intuition about a given scene and what does and doesn't work.

I started off with P&S cameras and before I knew the mechanics of cameras I was frustrated with the automatic exposures; once I discovered I was missing "manual mode" I never turned back.

Sure, from time to time I'll use the priority or program modes when the shot is more important than the learning experience, but after 4 years of hobbyist photography I still find myself with much to learn and I enjoy the challenge of manual exposures.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#66

Post by thingie »

luser001 wrote: post #61
modoc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better lenses are fixed aperture though, so I don't think it's unreasonable to replicate that here. My 24-70 is 2.8 across the board.

Are you sure? When a lens claims to be f/2.8 at all zoom levels, it usually means that that the maximum aperture (i.e., minimum f-number) is f/2.8. It can do f/11 etc also. If it is indeed a lens with just a single aperture setting, can you tell me the model number? I'm quite curious now. Thx.

He means that his 24-70 zoom lens has the maximum aperture of f/2.8 at all focal lengths from 24 to 70. Cheaper lens would get to, say, f/3.5 at 24, but at 70, you wouldn't get more than f/5.6, for example. So you can't set it to 70mm and f/3.5, even though you can set it to 24 and f/3.5, because it can't physically do that. Of course you can set it to f/13 or even more, that's easy to do with an ordinary lens. There are some funnier lenses (mirror lenses, for example) that have fixed apertures. It's f/8 and you can't do anything about it, because there is no mechanism that would allow you to cover more or less of space before the sensor (film).

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#67

Post by Tloewald »

lusr wrote: post #65
Tloewald wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do this in manual mode?

Why not? Every pre-digital photographer did manual exposures. It teaches you to pay attention to your environment, and ultimately, I believe, makes you a better photographer because it develops your intuition about a given scene and what does and doesn't work. I started off with P&S cameras and before I knew the mechanics of cameras I was frustrated with the automatic exposures; once I discovered I was missing "manua…

I started out with manual everything cameras processing my own film, and I got pretty darn good a judging lighting by eye. Unless what you're trying to learn to do is become a human light meter, the "education" you're describing is pretty silly. You can accomplish the same results more quickly using the correct automatic setting and exposure compensation.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#68

Post by Tloewald »

japhyr wrote: post #57
Arelius wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that basically what Aperture Priority mode does?

Yes, for people who understand how aperture relates to depth of field. But there seem to be a good number of people who understand what depth of field is, without understanding how to control for it using aperture.

Depth of field is controlled by aperture, focal length, and distance to subject. The degree to which the subject is actually isolated from the background is also very important. This simulator manages to bury one aspect of this information and ignore the rest.

All else being equal, to increase subject isolation:

* Get closer to the subject

* Increase focal length ("zoom in")

* Increase aperture operning (smaller aperture number)

* Increase separation between subject and background

Each of these things is equally important. (But all else is not equal, so if you're determined to stand in one spot and not change your composition, just increasing aperture size is your only option.)

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#69

Post by Tloewald »

slantyyz wrote: post #34
Tloewald wrote: post #6

Is this the same SLR simulator I saw a couple of years back? Can't tell because it's Flash. Seems to me like DSLRs don't really need simulators. Pick up a DSLR, dial it to P or green or whatever, and go. It's simpler and more responsive than a point and shoot, just bigger and heavier. (My four year olds love using my smaller DSLR and have less trouble using it than a small P&S.) Anyone wanting to learn the fine point…

Dialing it to P teaches you nothing, since the camera is picking the exposure settings for you. If you're really going to learn via shooting, you need to bracket your shots, line them up side by side in an app like Lightroom or iPhoto and look at the metadata to see what changed in the scene from the setting changes. Most people aren't going to bother doing this. If an app like this is done properly, it would let you…

If you learn to use the P setting on modern cameras it's actually all there, only more convenient (the control dial in P mode trades shutter speed for aperture). I happen to live in A mode most of the time, mostly because I'm forgetful.

There's an even better mode one Pentax DSLRs where one dial acts as a P dial and the other controls ISO.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#70

Post by JonArnold »

japhyr wrote: post #26
Tloewald wrote: post #6

Is this the same SLR simulator I saw a couple of years back? Can't tell because it's Flash. Seems to me like DSLRs don't really need simulators. Pick up a DSLR, dial it to P or green or whatever, and go. It's simpler and more responsive than a point and shoot, just bigger and heavier. (My four year olds love using my smaller DSLR and have less trouble using it than a small P&S.) Anyone wanting to learn the fine point…

I see value in this. I have seen many people frustrated because their camera's automatic functions did not produce the image they wanted, and they have no idea how to change the settings to get a better image. It almost always boils down to an understanding between shutter speed, aperture, and simple settings such as exposure compensation. For these people, this kind of simulator could be really helpful. It might be…

japhyr, the paid iOS and desktop versions of this have much more descriptive feedback (what to fix, etc)
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