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Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

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Re: Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

#231

Post by dns_snek »

icehawk wrote: post #62
Caligatio wrote: post #28

I always scratch my head about articles that lump Meta, Apple, and Google together when it comes to regulations. They all have different problems that require different solutions. Apple - consumers give the company for hardware which is locked into a closed ecosystem. Apple extracts extra revenue by enforcing this closed ecosystem. There can be no competition other than not purchasing their hardware in the first plac…

As a consumer, I am particularly unsympathetic to what what Apple is doing to developers. The developers do the same to me when they have the opportunity.

You're painting with an awfully wide brush there. Apple is screwing everyone, but especially developers who want to develop truly free/transparent apps without ads, tracking, or other predatory monetization models (i.e. the "good" ones).

Re: Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

#232

Post by mike_hearn »

yau8edq12i wrote: post #217
aembleton wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it initiate legislation? Any examples of legislation that were drafted by meps?

I wasn't aware that "make decisions" meant exclusively "initiate legislation". You don't have to play coy, though: it is also middle school level knowledge that the parliament cannot formally initiate the legislative process. It's also written in the Wikipedia article I linked. > The European Parliament has legislative power in that the adoption of EU legislation normally requires its approval, and that of the Counci…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament

In modern politics, and history, a parliament is a legislative body of government.

The purpose of a parliament is to make decisions about what the law says. Something that cannot decide what the law is, is therefore not a parliament. The EU Parliament isn't really a parliament.

Re: Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

#233

Post by danielbln »

omnimus wrote: post #198
fleshdaddy wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me at least it’s not actually the price of the Uber but that I know what it will be up front. I wasn’t really taking cabs until uber was ubiquitous though so maybe that’s not the same for everyone.

Taxis have apps now too you know. Like the experience is exactly the same as Uber. At least in european countries.

Apps yes, but still mostly metered.

Re: Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

#234

Post by kalleboo »

ben_w wrote: post #193
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switching yourself is easy, but you can't expect everyone you interact with to switch too when they don't have a reason for it (and they have the same problem of getting all of their contacts to switch). If there's interop between the chat applications - and be honest, do any of them have a unique selling point that makes them significantly better to the average user? - then that restriction is lifted. It improves co…

> Switching yourself is easy, but you can't expect everyone you interact with to switch too when they don't have a reason for it (and they have the same problem of getting all of their contacts to switch). Sure, but "the old one is no longer available" is absolutely going to get everyone to switch in the approximately 60 seconds it takes to go from the notification to having a new account. I mean, Google basically do…

It's easier on Android where anyone can "become" the SMS app and integrate all your chats in one place. Apple does not allow that, so you're always going to end up going back to iMessage with some people if you just know their phone number and try to send an SMS.

Re: Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

#235

Post by [deleted] »

nottorp wrote: post #68
riffraff wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine 2007 and the following years already with the EU act in full effect. AppStore would be dead on arrival. App stores on platforms where competition is allowed still thrive, I'm sure you heard of Steam?

And funny enough, Steam has some competition, namely GoG. Speaking of game stores, how about an "alternate iOS app store" that only has hand curated pay once games? Might entice me to actually check mobile games again and even buy some.

[deleted]

Re: Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

#236

Post by NekkoDroid »

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #224
Kbelicius wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand the problem with that scheme is that by not paying you not only agree to see the ads but also to the tracking.

That is certainly the case, but seems to be perfectly legal. This scheme is implemented by a number of companies, but most charge only €2/mo or so.

> That is certainly the case, but seems to be perfectly legal.

I don't think its legal, considering that not too long ago even here on HN there was a post about "Pay or Okay" not being considered legal https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38458660

Some further articles/document about it:

https://noyb.eu/en/statement-edpb-pay-or-okay-opinion

https://www.edpb.europa.eu/system/files/2024-04/edpb_opinion...

Re: Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

#237

Post by throwaway7471 »

fleshdaddy wrote: post #159
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber should be worried, but also because they are no longer cheaper than the established competition (taxis) that already had the labour laws in place.

For me at least it’s not actually the price of the Uber but that I know what it will be up front. I wasn’t really taking cabs until uber was ubiquitous though so maybe that’s not the same for everyone.

In Oslo, Norway, one of the major taxi companies has an app called Taxifix. You reserve a maximum price in advance. If it ends up cheaper, you only pay the actual price. If it ends up more expensive, the taxi company covers it. You can also see where your taxi is on a map while you are waiting

I think other companies have similar apps, but I always use this company as they usually have more competent drivers and reasonable prices

Re: Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

#238

Post by NekkoDroid »

freetanga wrote: post #158
riffraff wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine 2007 and the following years already with the EU act in full effect. AppStore would be dead on arrival. App stores on platforms where competition is allowed still thrive, I'm sure you heard of Steam?

Xbox, Sony and Nintendo each has its own e-store plus physical copies (first and second hand) in many retailers. Epic, Rockstar, EA, Paradigm, etc each have their own e-Shops too. Any dev can choose to sell direct too (your Mac, Win or Linux will happily install third party software) And Steam has GoG and other competitors (I often used Humble Bundle) You

> (I often used Humble Bundle)

Do note that Humble Bundle keys are often Steam keys provided to the developers by Steam at no extra cost IIRC.

Re: Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

#239

Post by pjerem »

mike_hearn wrote: post #232
yau8edq12i wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't aware that "make decisions" meant exclusively "initiate legislation". You don't have to play coy, though: it is also middle school level knowledge that the parliament cannot formally initiate the legislative process. It's also written in the Wikipedia article I linked. > The European Parliament has legislative power in that the adoption of EU legislation normally requires its approval, and that of the Counci…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament In modern politics, and history, a parliament is a legislative body of government. The purpose of a parliament is to make decisions about what the law says. Something that cannot decide what the law is, is therefore not a parliament. The EU Parliament isn't really a parliament.

The thing is, European Union isn’t a country. It’s an union of countries. The Union itself doesn’t have legislative powers. The Union dictates rules the countries must follow the laws are still written by national parliaments.

To be clear, I’m absolutely not against the European Parliament having legislative powers but that would require the UE to become a federation and we are still far from this.

Re: Big Tech to EU: "Drop Dead"

#240

Post by fauigerzigerk »

>Meta’s answer to this is a “Pay or Okay” system, in which users who do not consent to Meta’s surveillance will have to pay to use the service, or be blocked from it. Unfortunately for Meta, this is prohibited (privacy is not a luxury good that only the wealthiest should be afforded).

I'm a bit torn on this one. If the EU decided to ban the use of personal data for advertising outright, it would be radical but consistent. But what they appear to be doing is to give people a choice to say yes or no while not allowing them to trade their personal data in exchange for services.

Justifying this with a slogan like "privacy is not a luxury" seems weirdly out of touch with any possible reality. If most users were declining the collection of personal data and more services switched to a subscription model, then the entire service would become a luxury for a large share of the world's population. On top of that, privacy would be lost for everybody as there is nothing that eradicates privacy more thoroughly than making a payment.

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