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A trustworthy, free (libre), Linux capable, self-hosting 64bit RISC-V computer

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Re: A trustworthy, free (libre), Linux capable, self-hosting 64bit RISC-V computer

#31

Post by rowanG077 »

tredre3 wrote: post #30
rowanG077 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would you mean you connect your hidden CPU to essentially every wire inside the FPGA. Trivial to detect, and extremely expensive, and probably even impossible considering timing model.

There's no need for such complexity. FPGAs read their programming from an i2c eeprom/flash when they boot, the hidden CPU just has to sniff that bus to get the entire bitstream and know the mapping.

And then you know that mapping. That still means you will need to connect to arbitrary wires. If you have the mapping but you aren't connected to the wire you want to disrupt or sniff then tough luck you can't do anything.

Theoretically what you could do is MITM the bitstream, upload it to a server. Resynthesize, place and route with your sniff wires connected and write that back flash. But now you have to hide a radio, and either force a restart or hope a restart will happen.

Re: A trustworthy, free (libre), Linux capable, self-hosting 64bit RISC-V computer

#32

Post by musicale »

bitcompost wrote: post #11
shrubble wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People used 50Mhz SPARC systems to do real work, and the peripherals were all a lot slower (10mbps Ethernet, slower SCSI drives) with less and slower RAM. But it might take a week to compile everything you wanted, I agree; of course there is always cross-compiling as well.

Oh I believe in theory a 50Mhz CPU is capable of doing almost everything I need, but it just lacks the software optimized for it. I think a week to compile everything is too optimistic.

Old compilers/IDEs like Turbo Pascal or Think C were/are usably fast on single-digit MHz machines and emulators.

And even if the CPU is 50 MHz, modern DRAM and NVMe flash are very fast compared to memory and storage on 1990s (or older) machines.

Older versions of Microsoft Office (etc.) ran about the same on 50 MHz systems as Office 365 runs today.

Re: A trustworthy, free (libre), Linux capable, self-hosting 64bit RISC-V computer

#33

Post by 3abiton »

buildbot wrote: post #2

It’s really quite amazing to login a linux shell on an orangecrab FPGA running a RISV-V softcore, built using an open source toolchain. That was impossible not so long ago! At best you’d have something like Xilinx PetaLinux and all their proprietary junk.

This is and will be a rallying moment soon for the community, both open hardware and software finally working together! This will be huge by the end of the decade.

Re: A trustworthy, free (libre), Linux capable, self-hosting 64bit RISC-V computer

#35

Post by taftster »

3abiton wrote: post #33
buildbot wrote: post #2

It’s really quite amazing to login a linux shell on an orangecrab FPGA running a RISV-V softcore, built using an open source toolchain. That was impossible not so long ago! At best you’d have something like Xilinx PetaLinux and all their proprietary junk.

This is and will be a rallying moment soon for the community, both open hardware and software finally working together! This will be huge by the end of the decade.

I guess using some local definition of "huge".

Re: A trustworthy, free (libre), Linux capable, self-hosting 64bit RISC-V computer

#36

Post by marssaxman »

bitcompost wrote: post #5

While I love the idea of self-hosting HW and SW, I can't even imagine the pain of building stuff like GCC on 60Mhz CPU. Not to mention the Rocket CPU is written in Scala. I recently stopped using Gentoo on RockPro64, because the compile times were unbearable, and that's a system orders of magnitude faster than what they want to use.

> I can't even imagine the pain of building stuff like GCC on 60Mhz CPU

Some of us remember what that sort of thing was like, not so very long ago...

Re: A trustworthy, free (libre), Linux capable, self-hosting 64bit RISC-V computer

#38

Post by nineteen999 »

marssaxman wrote: post #36
bitcompost wrote: post #5

While I love the idea of self-hosting HW and SW, I can't even imagine the pain of building stuff like GCC on 60Mhz CPU. Not to mention the Rocket CPU is written in Scala. I recently stopped using Gentoo on RockPro64, because the compile times were unbearable, and that's a system orders of magnitude faster than what they want to use.

> I can't even imagine the pain of building stuff like GCC on 60Mhz CPU Some of us remember what that sort of thing was like, not so very long ago...

Back then GCC was much smaller, and only contained C code, not C++. But sure, let's compare apples and ... much bigger heavier apples.

Re: A trustworthy, free (libre), Linux capable, self-hosting 64bit RISC-V computer

#39

Post by almostgotcaught »

3abiton wrote: post #33
buildbot wrote: post #2

It’s really quite amazing to login a linux shell on an orangecrab FPGA running a RISV-V softcore, built using an open source toolchain. That was impossible not so long ago! At best you’d have something like Xilinx PetaLinux and all their proprietary junk.

This is and will be a rallying moment soon for the community, both open hardware and software finally working together! This will be huge by the end of the decade.

> This is and will be a rallying moment soon for the community

My guy this thing is 4 years old. Spoiler alert: it wasn't.

Re: A trustworthy, free (libre), Linux capable, self-hosting 64bit RISC-V computer

#40

Post by Gibbon1 »

marssaxman wrote: post #36
bitcompost wrote: post #5

While I love the idea of self-hosting HW and SW, I can't even imagine the pain of building stuff like GCC on 60Mhz CPU. Not to mention the Rocket CPU is written in Scala. I recently stopped using Gentoo on RockPro64, because the compile times were unbearable, and that's a system orders of magnitude faster than what they want to use.

> I can't even imagine the pain of building stuff like GCC on 60Mhz CPU Some of us remember what that sort of thing was like, not so very long ago...

I made a meme and sent it to my even older coworker with two guys from the office looking pensive. Titled 'The Build Failed Saturday and Again Sunday Night'
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