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Seemingly it's using a to render everything just like Flutter on Web, which is known to have problems with accessibility and feel non-native.
Seemingly it's using a to render everything just like Flutter on Web, which is known to have problems with accessibility and feel non-native.
I’m curious if anyone has a variant of this idea where an invisible DOM lives alongside the canvas for accessibility reasons. It should work but I imagine it would also take a lot of work.
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The best option is probably Flutter right now: https://flutter.dev/ If you don't mind writing the UI native, sharing only business logic code, Kotlin is an option: https://kotlinlang.org/docs/multiplatform.html#kotlin-multip... Kotlin also can do the UI if you use Compose: https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/compose-multiplatform/ ... however, iOS support is still in alpha, and Web is "experimental". If you're not willing t…
The one flutter website I have come across is an absolute piece of garbage. Completely destroys the ability to modify or even inspect the HTML source. See for yourself https://sunrisetv.ch/de/vod/1/details/vod/crid:~~2F~~2Fog.li...
The amazing thing is that 30 years ago there were cross platform toolkits like Neuron Data and the toolkit under OpenOffice(called StarOffice originally), and yet today the options are still fragmented and imperfect. We have far better compilers and even languages for cross-platform work, so it should be easier by now.
Seemingly it's using a to render everything just like Flutter on Web, which is known to have problems with accessibility and feel non-native.
I’m curious if anyone has a variant of this idea where an invisible DOM lives alongside the canvas for accessibility reasons. It should work but I imagine it would also take a lot of work.
Pax renders vector graphics to canvas layers and composites + clips + occludes native elements (web DOM nodes, iOS SwiftUI Text elements, etc.) in the same space to make a cohesive scene.
This solves accessibility and SEO, as well as dramatically reducing runtime size (~100KB WASM network footprint) because text rendering and atomic native UI elements don't need to be reinvented.
To my knowledge we're the only ones taking this particular approach so far (I'm on the team behind Pax) but it works quite well. Yes it was a lot of work.
[0] see pax.dev or check out a simple example: https://static.pax.dev/space-game/ ; source code for space game in examples on github https://www.github.com/paxengine/pax
The amazing thing is that 30 years ago there were cross platform toolkits like Neuron Data and the toolkit under OpenOffice(called StarOffice originally), and yet today the options are still fragmented and imperfect. We have far better compilers and even languages for cross-platform work, so it should be easier by now.
We have HTML now, which is a great advancement. Don't forget about that.
The HTML / CSS stack comes with significant ergonomic hurdles (layout / positioning / "creative fidelity") and performance hurdles (inescapable GC pauses, constant overhead of constraint-solving layout system, DOM overhead in general.)
Can we do better? IMO the future GUI lingua franca is deeply inspired by HTML and will stand on the shoulders of that giant, but will:
- Build to LLVM native apps as well as websites
- Include React-style templating as a foundational concern
- Be fundamentally designed for visual building (think of the ergonomic differences between Webflow & Figma — if "an HTML" existed that "a Figma" could read & write natively, building front-ends would take a quantum leap)
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I’m curious if anyone has a variant of this idea where an invisible DOM lives alongside the canvas for accessibility reasons. It should work but I imagine it would also take a lot of work.
This is how Flutter for web implements accessibility. It's been a while since I checked, but last time I tried using a Flutter app on the web with a screen reader, there were problems. I don't remember specifics.
I checked it last a couple of weeks ago on my Android phone, and the result was so poor, I didn't check with other platforms.
You need to "opt in" to accessibility as a user, so in the beginning you have one button visible to screen readers, then your screen reader sees that single button, then you need to "double tap to activate" to make the rest of the document screen readable.
Then, somehow they made a funky screen reader voice read stuff out loud, not my system's voice, with all the awkwardness and issues that come with it.
On lists, it only recognized the items that were on screen, if you had to "scroll", you are out of luck.
Now, I'm sure someone will come and tell me how I'm holding it wrong, but somehow, every website and even Flutter on mobile got the accessibility mainly right by default, on Flutter web the accessibility situation is very poor.
Seemingly it's using a to render everything just like Flutter on Web, which is known to have problems with accessibility and feel non-native.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The best option is probably Flutter right now: https://flutter.dev/ If you don't mind writing the UI native, sharing only business logic code, Kotlin is an option: https://kotlinlang.org/docs/multiplatform.html#kotlin-multip... Kotlin also can do the UI if you use Compose: https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/compose-multiplatform/ ... however, iOS support is still in alpha, and Web is "experimental". If you're not willing t…
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There were some rumors that made people think of the worst, and as we speak about Google, a lot of people panicked that Google is dropping Flutter.
However, that was not the case.
They moved some roles to new locations, meaning (they claim) the team size change is net zero. https://x.com/MiSvTh/status/1785767966815985893
I get your frustration. Google just killed two of my favorite products this month (or more accurately, I found out about them this month), and then I heard about the Flutter downsizing rumors. I worked with Flutter for years now, and I decided that I can't let my professional fate in a company like that and started learning something new to switch to. Even if today it looks like they let Flutter live, it's better be prepared and pack up while I can leave on my own terms.
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> what's the best method to build cross-platform mobile & web apps nowadays ? Uno ( https://platform.uno ): * open-source * targets Android, iOS, Windows, Mac, and Linux ( https://platform.uno/platforms/ ) * C# * automatically implements views and controls using each platform's native UI frameworks * good IDE support: Visual Studio, VS Code, Rider (though you are not limited to those) * Figma plugin for design collab…
I mean I guess that's fine if you're into .NET but how about those who prefer to avoid that