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Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant: Finished in 1978 but never used

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Re: Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant: Finished in 1978 but never used

#91

Post by lionkor »

someguydave wrote: post #51
awesomeMilou wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up close to Kalkar and visited the theme park that is now located at the power plant a few times as a kid. If you read the timeline, you can see that the protests started before the Chernobyl disaster. At that point, no government entity wanted the reactor to go online. Some of my family members went to protest there when they were younger. Our physics teachers discussed the plant with us on several occasions…

I am sure the Russians spent much energy and money to shape the public opinion in Germany to serve their interests.

I am sure the Americans spent much energy and money to shape the public opinion in Germany to serve their interests.

Re: Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant: Finished in 1978 but never used

#93

Post by rjzzleep »

t312227 wrote: post #87
rjzzleep wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You throw in left-leaning socialist and liberal-conservative as if it's supposed to clarify the story. Both of those terms meant vastly different things from now 50 years ago. Can you be a bit more precise with your 2 cents so we can actually understand what you're saying? Social Democracy isn't "socialist left", but leaving that aside, what you're saying is that the social democrats of the time tried to create energ…

hello, ok ... lmgtfu ... so lets go for the details - sadly most of it is in german public vote on zwentendorf ~ where you can read the details i mentioned - and more: * https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksabstimmung_in_%C3%96sterr... an overview about the reforms of the kreisky government during the 70ties * http://kreisky100.at/meilensteine/index.html or about the person "bruno kreisky" * https://kontrast.at/bruno-k…

OK thank you for clarifying, that was very interesting. If the socialist party was renamed to social democrats almost 8 years after this person left office, then the way the Wikipedia article is written is literally rewriting history.

Just a point about the socialist label for the many Americans here. Willie Brandt worked hard on what was called social market economy, it is actually what gave rise to the successes of the German state in the past. While it is socialist, it is very far away from what the average American likes to call socialist. It was a hugely successful economic model, and the bit by bit destruction of that system is what gave rise to this dysfunctional rump state, which is the current Germany.

Re: Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant: Finished in 1978 but never used

#94

Post by rmu09 »

preisschild wrote: post #63
rmu09 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is one single westinghouse reactor of the same type that was used in Fukushima II. So essentially 60ies technology. I'm no nuclear expert but there surely is much improved more efficient and safer reactor technology now, not to speak of completely obsolete control and safety systems. Also AFAIK it isn't really complete anymore as parts have been dismantled and sold to be used in reactors of similar vintage.

It is not a westinghouse reactor. Westinghouse doesnt and has never produced Boiling Water Reactors afaik. They mostly do Pressurized Water Reactors. And while Fukushima and Zwentendorf had the same type of reactor (Boiling Water Reactor), it was not the same modell or from the same vendor. Fukushimas reactor was made by General Electrics. Zwentendorfs reactor was made by the German Kraftwerk Union.

You are right, its a GE design. Boiling Water Reactor doesn't say that much, the soviet RBMK (big reactor with tubes) also are of boiling water type. This ORF story https://noev1.orf.at/stories/504751 (in german) claims that the type in Zwentendorf is identical to those in Fukushima (I). Maybe it's not exactly the same type but the designs seem to be very close relatives.

Re: Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant: Finished in 1978 but never used

#95

Post by rmu09 »

rjzzleep wrote: post #93
t312227 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hello, ok ... lmgtfu ... so lets go for the details - sadly most of it is in german public vote on zwentendorf ~ where you can read the details i mentioned - and more: * https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksabstimmung_in_%C3%96sterr... an overview about the reforms of the kreisky government during the 70ties * http://kreisky100.at/meilensteine/index.html or about the person "bruno kreisky" * https://kontrast.at/bruno-k…

OK thank you for clarifying, that was very interesting. If the socialist party was renamed to social democrats almost 8 years after this person left office, then the way the Wikipedia article is written is literally rewriting history. Just a point about the socialist label for the many Americans here. Willie Brandt worked hard on what was called social market economy, it is actually what gave rise to the successes of…

I was under the impression that the concept of social market economy is a conservative project, CDU resp. ÖVP (in Austria). I wouldn't call that socialist, after all, it is a competitive market economy with private enterprise.

Re: Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant: Finished in 1978 but never used

#96

Post by [deleted] »

TomK32 wrote: post #35
ninja3925 wrote: post #2

It’s mind boggling how a country can be so rich as to spend millions of manhours on a project and never use it. Maybe we have become too rich as a species.

Or we have become stupid enough to start projects that in the case of nuclear power plants are mostly over budget, over time and with the unsolved long-term problem of nuclear waste. Imagine all that money back then invested into solar research and building wind farms.

[deleted]

Re: Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant: Finished in 1978 but never used

#97

Post by jhallenworld »

Same story as Shoreham Long Island

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoreham_Nuclear_Power_Plant

Built and powered up, but never used..

"...the state taking over the plant and then attaching a 3 percent surcharge to Long Island electric bills for 30 years to pay off the $6 billion price tag"

"Had the Shoreham Nuclear Power Station gone into operation as planned, it would have prevented the emission of an estimated three million tons of carbon dioxide per year"

Re: Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant: Finished in 1978 but never used

#98

Post by Krasnol »

datadeft wrote: post #39
Krasnol wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no irony there at all. Austria, just like many other European countries, are connected to a single grid which has all kinds of energies and where everybody buys on the European Energy Exchange. This grid is what makes the rapid transition to renewable energies possible, and which shows that the base load scare is not more than just one of many FUD tools which aim at slowing down or stopping a transition whic…

> This grid is what makes the rapid transition to renewable energies possible No, it makes it possible to have nuclear base load plants in Hungary and Bulgaria and few other countries while some small country can play the renewable game at home. Renewables are not something that we can control. This makes them useless without a giant battery or power plants that are possible to scale up and down. The irony is that th…

> No, it makes it possible to have nuclear base load plants in Hungary and Bulgaria and few other countries while some small country can play the renewable game at home

Those reactors play a negligible role. We've seen it all when the rotting French fleet went down for months.

Nuclear was the smallest part in the mix in 2020. This is 4 years any additional percentage of renewables ago: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/EU-energy-mix-2020-12_fi...

> This makes them useless without a giant battery or power plants

How are you still repeating this myth? We have the whole of Austria or the Nordics as giant batteries. The grid is working now. Despite the constantly rising amounts of really clean energy in it, and despite the FUD from the nuclear bubble.

Re: Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant: Finished in 1978 but never used

#99

Post by arresin »

heja2009 wrote: post #54
acidburnNSA wrote: post #31

The one that really breaks my heart is the SNR-300, a cutting-edge liquid metal sodium-cooled breeder reactor capable of unlocking the full potential of the majority isotope (U-238) rather than just the minority (U-235), giving us literally billions of years of current-day whole-earth power from known uranium resources (including seawater and erosion). It was 100% completed and ready to come up to power, but then Che…

Hmm, Kalkar, the only nuclear power plant I ever protested - in the late 70s when I was still in school and construction had just begun. It was finished in 85 but never even fueled due to safety concerns (liquid natrium is nasty, state government did not authorize operation), protests and significant doubts about its purpose (breeders are most suitable to produce bomb material and nuclear fuel). Chernobyl happened 19…

What a waste

Re: Zwentendorf Nuclear Power Plant: Finished in 1978 but never used

#100

Post by Krasnol »

scotty79 wrote: post #73
Krasnol wrote: post #4

Since the article adds no value besides a rage bait, I would like to add that the resulting decision to not build any nuclear power plant without consulting the population first was a significant step for the Austrian population's participation in democratic processes. Resulting in for example this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Hainburger_A...

Global warming turns so many of the environmental fights into saving the flowers while the forests are burning. If noone ever fought for the environment beyond their own personal immediate health we might be in better position now than we are in term of CO2 and millions of people and thousands of ecosystems and species could be saved.

> If noone ever fought for the environment beyond their own personal immediate health we might be in better position now than we are in term of CO2 and millions of people and thousands of ecosystems and species could be saved.

It is astonishing how far the nuclear bubble is ready to go down the stairs of reason for drama. I mean seriously? Wtf is this? :D Are you joking? This is the equivalent of people who buy a gun to protect their house because the police is useless and being proud of it.

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