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Wind farms can offset their emissions within two years, new study shows

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Re: Wind farms can offset their emissions within two years, new study shows

#91

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #42
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except old turbine blades tend not to leak out and make surrounding land unlivable by humans.

This not a battle between nuclear and wind. Why not use both? Nuclear has dangers (which people are learning to mitigate) but wind, solar, and geothermal cannot be used in every situation. When no better choice exists we should embrace nuclear.

I wasn't arguing against nuclear. I was responding to the comment regarding "What's the harm in piling it up on empty land until someone finds use for it" as applying to nuclear waste.

Regarding your point, though, I'm certainly no expert but I believe at this point people aren't investing in new nuclear capacity because they don't believe that long term it will be cost competitive with renewables + storage.

Re: Wind farms can offset their emissions within two years, new study shows

#92

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

gibolt wrote: post #89
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you can dismiss the aesthetic concerns. Many people consider the natural beauty around them to be a core part of their living experience. Like with offshore wind farms - if you take coastlines and dot them with wind farms, it does hurt that beauty and experience in a meaningful way. And if you’ve been near them, they produce immense and constant noise that is hard to ignore. There will definitely be eff…

Transmission lines absolutely do make noise. Plenty of smaller scale power line elements can also hum. For anyone complaining about offshore wind (which is way the hell off in the distance) it may be worth considering that the alternative is those houses and beaches on the shore cease to exist in the future if we don't build the turbines.

> Transmission lines absolutely do make noise. Plenty of smaller scale power line elements can also hum.

Maybe higher power ones can, but I’ve never had residential lines hum. And as for long distance transmission lines - even their noise is nothing compared to what a spinning blade on a wind turbine generates. You can find videos of the noise on YouTube.

> For anyone complaining about offshore wind (which is way the hell off in the distance) it may be worth considering that the alternative is those houses and beaches on the shore cease to exist in the future if we don't build the turbines.

This feels like a strawman argument or something. I don’t think such an extreme positioning makes sense. There are many other variables like power sources (nuclear power for example), reduced consumption, changing population levels (trending downwards in many countries). It’s not like building wind power is the only way for humanity to thrive.

Re: Wind farms can offset their emissions within two years, new study shows

#95

Post by icehawk »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #78
glenstein wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to your point, albeit with a more frivolous example, wind power has been subject to tests for aesthetic satisfaction that never have to be passed with such regularity by, say, telephone wires, roads or sidewalks, other forms of electricity infrastructure, big box stores, oil and gas infrastructure, gas stations, etc. In some cases if you even ask the question you might be dismissed as a crank because, well, roads…

I don’t think you can dismiss the aesthetic concerns. Many people consider the natural beauty around them to be a core part of their living experience. Like with offshore wind farms - if you take coastlines and dot them with wind farms, it does hurt that beauty and experience in a meaningful way. And if you’ve been near them, they produce immense and constant noise that is hard to ignore. There will definitely be eff…

> roads don’t make noise

You're proving GP's point. Roads on their own don't make noise, but if I go outside I can hear the road noise from cars going down a IH-35 which is a mile away. (It isn't even the only road I can hear noise from)

Re: Wind farms can offset their emissions within two years, new study shows

#97

Post by dools »

"The study reviewed current literature on wind farms, as well as using real construction data to take into account everything from the manufacturing of individual turbine parts, to transporting them into place, to decommissioning the entire wind farm at Harapak"

I wonder if they take into account the footprint of storage. It should be noted that if wind is used as a serious replacement for non-renewable energy or nuclear then it must have associated installed storage capacity which I would say should be considered an inextricable component of its carbon footprint.

Re: Wind farms can offset their emissions within two years, new study shows

#98

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

icehawk wrote: post #95
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think you can dismiss the aesthetic concerns. Many people consider the natural beauty around them to be a core part of their living experience. Like with offshore wind farms - if you take coastlines and dot them with wind farms, it does hurt that beauty and experience in a meaningful way. And if you’ve been near them, they produce immense and constant noise that is hard to ignore. There will definitely be eff…

> roads don’t make noise You're proving GP's point. Roads on their own don't make noise, but if I go outside I can hear the road noise from cars going down a IH-35 which is a mile away. (It isn't even the only road I can hear noise from)

It’s totally different from the noise a wind turbine makes. Watch a video of what it’s like on YouTube. Road noise can also be mitigated in many ways and in many areas it is - based on the surface, walls, etc. But also consider that we expect that urban areas have a degree of noise, but we also generally expect that serene natural spaces are free of those things to a greater extent.

Re: Wind farms can offset their emissions within two years, new study shows

#99

Post by Meegul »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #75

At some point of transition the CO2 emissions drop to zero because all the energy at every stage comes from renewables. Solar can pay it's emissions cost back in 6 months but every solar panel company powers their factories with their own solar panels so in practice the practical emissions are reduced a lot and as mining adopts the new electric vehicles most things will tend towards almost nothing. The more renewable…

This is only true on the energy and transportation sides of emissions. Some processes like the creation of cement and refining of steel create CO2 through chemical processes, regardless of the energy source.

Re: Wind farms can offset their emissions within two years, new study shows

#100

Post by pgalvin »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #76

> “Although the carbon offset depends on the exact older technology the wind turbines are replacing, we would expect a similar offset internationally. In New Zealand it is gas turbines, but many countries will be displacing fossil fuel generators. Aren’t gas turbines a type of fossil fuel generator?

It’s clumsy wording. I took the intended meaning to be:

“This data is from New Zealand, replacing gas turbines, but many countries will also be replacing fossil fuel generators and have similar numbers.”

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