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SLR Camera Simulator

camerasim.com

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Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#41

Post by [deleted] »

subhro wrote: post #24
lusr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. Are you suggesting that the type of person who would find the camera simulator site useful is likely to be somebody who would own something like a Canon 5D Mark III? That's a $3,500 camera - body only. If you own that camera, I should hope you aren't visiting camera simulator sites, otherwise I suspect you're not going to be putting it to much good use :)

I have come across at least 2 people holding a 1 series camera and shooting in Auto or Programmed Auto modes. And I was severely disheartened. I am only expecting people who actually have a DSLR with either a variable or constant speed lens but still shoot auto will come and be able to try their hands out on a same scene with similar type of lighting but different shutter speed aperture combinations and later on be m…

[deleted]

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#42

Post by MBCook »

willyt wrote: post #30

Why not show the result in real time as you adjust the sliders? You can still show the preview off to one side or whatever. It would help develop a tighter iterative loop for experimenting and save the cognitive overhead of trying to remember what was wrong with the one before. Have some image 'troughs' which you can populate with screen grabs including the settings you used to allow quick reference to settings from…

I agree, that actually surprised me a bit. With a real SLR, some adjustments are immediately obvious. When you change the aperture, the view becomes brighter/dimmer and the depth of field changes.

Some, like shutter speed, don't make a difference until you hit the button, but it would have been nice to see the DOF changes in real time.

Still, a great little tool. Very handy.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#43

Post by subhro »

slantyyz wrote: post #40
subhro wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have come across at least 2 people holding a 1 series camera and shooting in Auto or Programmed Auto modes. And I was severely disheartened. I am only expecting people who actually have a DSLR with either a variable or constant speed lens but still shoot auto will come and be able to try their hands out on a same scene with similar type of lighting but different shutter speed aperture combinations and later on be m…

Why would you be disheartened? A lot of photographers (including skilled amateurs and pros) shoot in P mode when the situation allows for it. Prolific shooters usually know what to expect from their camera, so there's no need to experiment with settings all of the time, and if they see a P mode choice they don't like, they can program shift or switch to A/S/M mode.

I am not aware of your level of understanding of digital photography, so please pardon me. But as far as I understand, an average camera tries to reach the correct exposure by adding everything up to 18% grey. I am intentionally leaving the metering discussions out here for simplicity. So in case your frame contains too much light and shadows, your metering will be thrown off.

I come from an age when SLR cameras did not even have batteries, leave aside digital sensors. So probably it is hard wired into me that I need to use my eyes and brain and leave aside the cameras' when shooting.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#44

Post by slantyyz »

lusr wrote: post #15
Tloewald wrote: post #6

Is this the same SLR simulator I saw a couple of years back? Can't tell because it's Flash. Seems to me like DSLRs don't really need simulators. Pick up a DSLR, dial it to P or green or whatever, and go. It's simpler and more responsive than a point and shoot, just bigger and heavier. (My four year olds love using my smaller DSLR and have less trouble using it than a small P&S.) Anyone wanting to learn the fine point…

Where it has value, I think, is giving people a reference for the number of important variables. Modern DSLRs are covered in controls and symbols and modes, etc. and I believe for a beginner it can be quite overwhelming. Having just these key factors in mind when shooting could plausibly give a beginner the right set of variables to focus on without being distracted by all the other fluff. That being said, I absolute…

>> the only way to learn photography is to get out there and shoot.

Mostly agree, but I see there as being two parts of photography.

The art, which is seeing, composing, etc. For that, you do have to just get out and shoot.

The craft, which is knowing what settings to use and when. You can learn this by trial and error by "just going out and shooting", but having someone teach you, reading about it, or using an app that demonstrates what happens with a settings change will not only save time, but make the time spent shooting that much more productive.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#45

Post by thingie »

MBCook wrote: post #42
willyt wrote: post #30

Why not show the result in real time as you adjust the sliders? You can still show the preview off to one side or whatever. It would help develop a tighter iterative loop for experimenting and save the cognitive overhead of trying to remember what was wrong with the one before. Have some image 'troughs' which you can populate with screen grabs including the settings you used to allow quick reference to settings from…

I agree, that actually surprised me a bit. With a real SLR, some adjustments are immediately obvious. When you change the aperture, the view becomes brighter/dimmer and the depth of field changes. Some, like shutter speed, don't make a difference until you hit the button, but it would have been nice to see the DOF changes in real time. Still, a great little tool. Very handy.

On most DSLRs, I believe, you have to press a DOF-preview button (whatever it's called), instead, it remains wide open making it easier/possible to accurately focus using the viewfinder. Focus is what I miss most in this simulator, it leaves out a very important part of taking of the picture…

And of course, there is virtually no way to reflect the ISO or shutter speed setting, using the optical viewfinder. Not a bad idea to "simulate" here as well, because it's not funny to shoot in the aperture-first mode and forget to reset ISO from some ridiculously high value that you had to use yesterday in the evening.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#46

Post by MBCook »

thingie wrote: post #45
MBCook wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, that actually surprised me a bit. With a real SLR, some adjustments are immediately obvious. When you change the aperture, the view becomes brighter/dimmer and the depth of field changes. Some, like shutter speed, don't make a difference until you hit the button, but it would have been nice to see the DOF changes in real time. Still, a great little tool. Very handy.

On most DSLRs, I believe, you have to press a DOF-preview button (whatever it's called), instead, it remains wide open making it easier/possible to accurately focus using the viewfinder. Focus is what I miss most in this simulator, it leaves out a very important part of taking of the picture… And of course, there is virtually no way to reflect the ISO or shutter speed setting, using the optical viewfinder. Not a bad…

That's right, I remember that button. Good catch.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#47

Post by msbarnett »

MBCook wrote: post #42
willyt wrote: post #30

Why not show the result in real time as you adjust the sliders? You can still show the preview off to one side or whatever. It would help develop a tighter iterative loop for experimenting and save the cognitive overhead of trying to remember what was wrong with the one before. Have some image 'troughs' which you can populate with screen grabs including the settings you used to allow quick reference to settings from…

I agree, that actually surprised me a bit. With a real SLR, some adjustments are immediately obvious. When you change the aperture, the view becomes brighter/dimmer and the depth of field changes. Some, like shutter speed, don't make a difference until you hit the button, but it would have been nice to see the DOF changes in real time. Still, a great little tool. Very handy.

On most modern (D)SLRs the lens isn't stopped down to the aperture setting until the shutter button is depressed (or you activate the DOF-preview button if it's available). Even when the lens is stopped-down to the aperture you've set, the in-viewfinder effect is far subtler than it ends up being in the actual exposure.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#48

Post by slantyyz »

subhro wrote: post #43
slantyyz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you be disheartened? A lot of photographers (including skilled amateurs and pros) shoot in P mode when the situation allows for it. Prolific shooters usually know what to expect from their camera, so there's no need to experiment with settings all of the time, and if they see a P mode choice they don't like, they can program shift or switch to A/S/M mode.

I am not aware of your level of understanding of digital photography, so please pardon me. But as far as I understand, an average camera tries to reach the correct exposure by adding everything up to 18% grey. I am intentionally leaving the metering discussions out here for simplicity. So in case your frame contains too much light and shadows, your metering will be thrown off. I come from an age when SLR cameras did…

You're about right with the 18% grey, but most skilled photographers do rely on the in-camera metering these days, regardless of which P/A/S mode they're using.

They may not use matrix metering (I definitely don't, I use center weighted, and I'm just a hobbyist) but you also have to remember the dynamic range of a full-frame RAW file is pretty good and that you can get good shadow/highlight recovery out of most situations.

When the photographer is chimping the image post-shot, if they see that the exposure is way off, you can still program-shift the settings in P-mode or use the EV dial to make adjustments and reshoot.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#49

Post by thingie »

lusr wrote: post #19
modoc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better lenses are fixed aperture though, so I don't think it's unreasonable to replicate that here. My 24-70 is 2.8 across the board.

While I agree with the point on quality, constant aperture zoom lenses tend to be MUCH more expensive than variable aperture lenses. Your single lens costs more than twice her entire starting kit :) They also tend to have fairly specialist zoom ranges. I find it hard to imagine somebody with a constant aperture zoom lens would find benefit in this camera simulation. The majority of the kind of people using it will be…

The most common advice for them would be to get a prime lens. Especially in this simulation that offers both distance and focal length setting (which are, for this scene and 18-55mm focal length, mostly interchangeable), I'd like to have it. It'd also allow you to go (cheaply) to f/1.8 or f/1.4, which would be much better to illustrate the effect that aperture has on the depth of field. With a common f/3.5:5.6 kit lens and APS-C sensor, you won't get a shallow DOF and nice out-of-focus background easily, and that could be frustrating to a beginner. Especially when you learn to do it in this simulation.

Re: SLR Camera Simulator

#50

Post by thingie »

MBCook wrote: post #46
thingie wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On most DSLRs, I believe, you have to press a DOF-preview button (whatever it's called), instead, it remains wide open making it easier/possible to accurately focus using the viewfinder. Focus is what I miss most in this simulator, it leaves out a very important part of taking of the picture… And of course, there is virtually no way to reflect the ISO or shutter speed setting, using the optical viewfinder. Not a bad…

That's right, I remember that button. Good catch.

On the other hand, I was confused and disappointed that the lighting slider in the simulation doesn't do anything (well, it shows an icon, for a while, couldn't it just dim/lighten the scene a bit?).
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