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EU opens child safety probes of Facebook and Instagram, citing addictive design

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Re: EU opens child safety probes of Facebook and Instagram, citing addictive design

#71

I don't get how exactly this is measured though. For many app projects, keeping the user in the app is obviously one of the most important metrics, especially for free apps (hence more ads to show and more money to make). Many UX patterns are fine tuned to keep people in more, which is perfectly understandable as the primary goal is to keep the user in. Now, who defines "addictive" using which aspect? And even if it…

Considering the fact that obesity rates continue to climb despite approximately everyone knowing that eating too much sugar is bad for them at some point you need to acknowledge that a systemic problem requires a systemic solution. Education is great, but seems insufficient when pitted against companies actively trying to ensnare and addict the populace. We decided that the harms done by cigarettes and drug addiction…

"approximately everyone knowing that eating too much sugar is bad for them"

That's not really the case. For many people, if they know that too much sugar is bad for them, they think of sugar as in white sugar they add to the coffee or in terms of candybars, when instead they should think about carbohydrates as a whole. Replacing soft drinks with orange/apple juice many people would consider a healthy choice, but in the end you're still trading sugary water for sugary water (unlike eating whole fruit which has fiber and other elements to balance out the fructose). Then you get into potatoes, pasta, rice and bread which don't help when trying to lose or maintain weight.

Ask around amongst your friends and family. Tell them that you're trying a low fat diet. They will congratulate you on your life choices. Tell them you're trying a low carb diet. They will tell you you're killing yourself and you should stop because body needs energy to survive. Most "diet" products replace fats with carbs, which may even be a net negative in some cases when trying to diet.

Re: EU opens child safety probes of Facebook and Instagram, citing addictive design

#72

While I love a lot of the EU legislation, this seems to be something that is unenforceable at large. By all means target the voluminous data collection, but "addictive design" seems something in itself that would be challenging to define and regulate.

I'm not so sure. There's plenty of patterns in software that are obviously addictive. Think of time limited items in a store or loot boxes in games with big splashy animations.

I suspect there are patterns in social media that contribute to addictive design (visible up/down votes, for instance.)

Re: EU opens child safety probes of Facebook and Instagram, citing addictive design

#73
post #12

I am still hopeful that meta will remain true to their prior threats and leave the EU market in case of additional probes and regulations. Their platforms have done enough damage to our societies already.

It’s nice to think that the EU’s goal is actually the betterment of society, and not to simply replace Facebook, et al with their homegrown corporations.

Re: EU opens child safety probes of Facebook and Instagram, citing addictive design

#74

I don't get how exactly this is measured though. For many app projects, keeping the user in the app is obviously one of the most important metrics, especially for free apps (hence more ads to show and more money to make). Many UX patterns are fine tuned to keep people in more, which is perfectly understandable as the primary goal is to keep the user in. Now, who defines "addictive" using which aspect? And even if it…

I would argue that apps resemble gambling more than they resemble sugar. And gambling is banned for children and heavily regulated for adults. More to the point, I don't think it's fair to call parents stupid. Even if parenting weren't hard (which it is) it is not fair to expect everyone to get a Bachelor's in Software Engineering to use the one device that's almost indispensable for daily life. Nor is it fair to exp…

>I would argue that apps resemble gambling more than they resemble sugar. And gambling is banned for children and heavily regulated for adults.

Gambling is just video games/table games/board games with real money betting mechanics, and as far as I'm aware most social media is free to use.

So when is the EU going to regulate actual legal children gambling in videogames, that is, microtransactions/gachapon transactions?

Re: EU opens child safety probes of Facebook and Instagram, citing addictive design

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who travels to Europe from time to time, I find the prevalence of smoking in Europe to be what I used to experience as a kid in the states in the 90s. I always wonder why that is when I visit.

Do European countries require printing pictures of diseased lungs on the side of cigarette boxes? Because if not that might have something to do with it. Nudging is quite effective at influencing average behavior.

> Do European countries require printing pictures of diseased lungs on the side of cigarette boxes?

They do.

Re: EU opens child safety probes of Facebook and Instagram, citing addictive design

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that apps resemble gambling more than they resemble sugar. And gambling is banned for children and heavily regulated for adults. More to the point, I don't think it's fair to call parents stupid. Even if parenting weren't hard (which it is) it is not fair to expect everyone to get a Bachelor's in Software Engineering to use the one device that's almost indispensable for daily life. Nor is it fair to exp…

>I would argue that apps resemble gambling more than they resemble sugar. And gambling is banned for children and heavily regulated for adults. Gambling is just video games/table games/board games with real money betting mechanics, and as far as I'm aware most social media is free to use. So when is the EU going to regulate actual legal children gambling in videogames, that is, microtransactions/gachapon transactions…

They have? Do you play popular video games? Many of them have had to change their presentation or behavior based on regulation that's mostly sourced from the EU. Many games have region locks so they can perform more or less spying on people.

Re: EU opens child safety probes of Facebook and Instagram, citing addictive design

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that apps resemble gambling more than they resemble sugar. And gambling is banned for children and heavily regulated for adults. More to the point, I don't think it's fair to call parents stupid. Even if parenting weren't hard (which it is) it is not fair to expect everyone to get a Bachelor's in Software Engineering to use the one device that's almost indispensable for daily life. Nor is it fair to exp…

>I would argue that apps resemble gambling more than they resemble sugar. And gambling is banned for children and heavily regulated for adults. Gambling is just video games/table games/board games with real money betting mechanics, and as far as I'm aware most social media is free to use. So when is the EU going to regulate actual legal children gambling in videogames, that is, microtransactions/gachapon transactions…

They are looking at that as well.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/1476642/europe-is-ready-to-c...

Re: EU opens child safety probes of Facebook and Instagram, citing addictive design

#80

I don't get how exactly this is measured though. For many app projects, keeping the user in the app is obviously one of the most important metrics, especially for free apps (hence more ads to show and more money to make). Many UX patterns are fine tuned to keep people in more, which is perfectly understandable as the primary goal is to keep the user in. Now, who defines "addictive" using which aspect? And even if it…

Calling parents "stupid" reveals a deplorable lack of parenting experience on your part - you don't know what you're talking about. Children spend 8 hours per day or more outside the home, and they share devices, so it's simply not feasible for parents to exert any great control over their offspring's digital lives. Regulation seems to be the only possible response.
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