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Face opera

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Re: Face opera

#81

Post by apawloski »

tjoff wrote: post #78
apawloski wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that were true, it's not especially important for the end user to be familiar with the brand name "Amazon." They use its services constantly. Are they familiar with Netflix? Do they read the Guardian or the Washington Post? Maybe they use apps like Yelp or Foursquare or visit websites like Reddit or IMDb. Amazon's web services are everywhere. If you're dismissing them because you don't recognize their name, I…

Are you seriously trying to convince a non-US citizen with those services? And I fail to see how amazon hosting a few sites makes it important enough in the current web landscape to be able to be compared to microsoft/google/apple/facebook. (I bet that reddit would exist without amazon)

Those are typically US-oriented services, so that's a fair point. I was trying to list brands which end-users might be more familiar with, but really that's beside the point.

Just one more nitpick: Amazon does not just "host a few websites." Seriously, Amazon Web Services is a noteworthy business and is widely used -- yes at the level of those other companies you listed -- whether you believe it or not.

Re: Face opera

#82

Post by [deleted] »

ttt_ wrote: post #24
klausa wrote: post #18

I'm really baffled by all those people saying that they will stop using Opera if FB acquires them. I mean - okay, If they start modifying it to send your data to Facebook without way to opt-out - sure, do that. If they start showing ads in fastmail and reading your mails - sure, that's reasonable. But I really think that doing that the moment FB acquires Opera would be quite an overreaction.

I don't know. I'm quite worried that the whole technology space is turning into a big brand feud war arena. We are begining to see the subverting of unrelated products into business strategies. No, I don't want my browser/car/glasses/phone with any strings attached. What are we looking forward to a decade from now? iBank? FB insurence? G+ real state? I for one will make efforts to avoid those products like the plague…

[deleted]

Re: Face opera

#83

Post by repoman »

You guys are really making a big deal here. You guys are hackers / engineers yourself. Companies need to make money. Almost every company "uses" your data and make money/ How do you think Gmail has "relevant" ads next to your email browser? No matter what fancy mechanism they put there, they are still using your information. If you really hate people using your data, just build your own mail service. Even small brands use your data. To what level do they use? Who knows. I am pretty sure people would lie about how their products use your information (oh yeah we don't store this and that...) BS. lol It's business. Your credit card and bank information all has to reported to credit companies. These companies make money off your information. So are you saying we should stop using credit cards? Even as "trivial" as college admission - you receive numerous stupid admission invitations, wtf is that? Apparently, College Board or somehow someone decides that information are "shared" to colleges as partnership....

Re: Face opera

#84

Post by tjoff »

apawloski wrote: post #79
tjoff wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, to compare amazon with apple, facebook, microsoft or google is ludicrous.

I don't mean to keep picking on you, but this might be more persuasive to you: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=book+value+amazon+faceb...

I don't see the relevance. Take dell: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=book+value+amazon+dell

If Dell were to be gone tomorrow, how would that affect you? Just barely, if you use Dell products you might switch to HP. End of story.

If amazon goes away tomorrow (and assuming that people have had time to migrate to other services) that wouldn't affect people the slightest. Some users in the US would be mad that their kindles don't support DRM from any other source than amazon but that's pretty much it.

Amazon, compared to the rest mentioned, does not play a part in "defining the future of the internet". They are just a service provider that can be replaced in a jiffy. Yes they probably have great services but they don't make or break things that define the internet.

If apple, google, microsoft or facebook would disappear - that would make quite an impression. Of those facebook surely is the one most easily replaced but their current presence on the internet is huge and that is why they can have a hand in defining the future of the internet.

Amazon and Dell can only hope that the companies that do shape the internet use their services/hardware - knowing full well that Facebook would run just fine on HP hardware.

Re: Face opera

#85

Post by jgroome »

cateye wrote: post #30

The battle of the giants is really beginning: Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Google and Amazon will be trying to define the future of the internet and they will have to attack each others core businesses to grow further. On several levels of the internet they all try to get a foot in: 1. Cloud: AWS, iCloud, Azure, Gdrive & App engine - Facebook hasn't got a storage or computation sollution 2. Social: Google+, Windows Li…

> So, Facebook definitely needs a browser.

Why?

Re: Face opera

#86

Post by sparkie »

klausa wrote: post #18

I'm really baffled by all those people saying that they will stop using Opera if FB acquires them. I mean - okay, If they start modifying it to send your data to Facebook without way to opt-out - sure, do that. If they start showing ads in fastmail and reading your mails - sure, that's reasonable. But I really think that doing that the moment FB acquires Opera would be quite an overreaction.

One problem is that we might not know (what) it's sending to facebook, as we don't have access to the code to review it. Sure there's tools to analyze/reverse engineer the client, but that isn't really a practical option.

Opera users instead trust Opera on the security and privacy they claim to offer. This tends to work fine, as Opera have a good reputation for privacy, and they have not abused the trust of their users.

Facebook have, multiple times. Anyone who cares about privacy will avoid it purely because facebook cannot be trusted. Trust must be earned, and facebook have much work to do before they will earn the trust of many (if ever).

I'm not quite sure what it is, but when companies are large enough, people tend to be forgiving, as if their past sins have been cleansed without any good reason. People tend to misplace popularity with trust - if so many people are using it, can't be bad for you right?

Re: Face opera

#87

Post by tjoff »

apawloski wrote: post #81
tjoff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously trying to convince a non-US citizen with those services? And I fail to see how amazon hosting a few sites makes it important enough in the current web landscape to be able to be compared to microsoft/google/apple/facebook. (I bet that reddit would exist without amazon)

Those are typically US-oriented services, so that's a fair point. I was trying to list brands which end-users might be more familiar with, but really that's beside the point. Just one more nitpick: Amazon does not just "host a few websites." Seriously, Amazon Web Services is a noteworthy business and is widely used -- yes at the level of those other companies you listed -- whether you believe it or not.

That's about as relevant as saying that Cisco is defining the future of the internet.

Facebook (or any user anywhere in the world) don't care whether their packets are routed on Cisco hardware and just because Cisco has a hand in the game doesn't mean that they have anything to say when it comes to defining the future of the internet. The best they can do is be prepared and hope that the future of the internet works well on their hardware (talking services now, of course Cisco has a larger role in the technical side of the internet but that's beside the point - unless somehow Cisco hardware is so unique that the "next facebook" or whatever wouldn't be able to exist without Cisco hardware (hardly likely for either Cisco or Amazon)).

Re: Face opera

#88

Post by apawloski »

tjoff wrote: post #84
apawloski wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to keep picking on you, but this might be more persuasive to you: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=book+value+amazon+faceb...

I don't see the relevance. Take dell: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=book+value+amazon+dell If Dell were to be gone tomorrow, how would that affect you? Just barely, if you use Dell products you might switch to HP. End of story. If amazon goes away tomorrow (and assuming that people have had time to migrate to other services) that wouldn't affect people the slightest. Some users in the US would be mad that thei…

Is there anything I can show you to convince you otherwise? You make a lot of gut claims that I'm worried we're straying away from what can be conveniently falsifiable.

In terms of your counterexample, perhaps a look at the historical growth of each: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=amazon+dell+stock+price.... But I'd like to move away from Dell, because what I'm addressing is the notion that Amazon is not a "player" comparable to Facebook, Apple, or Microsoft. Dell is a hardware company. Similar, but not enough in my opinion to make such a comparison.

I think we can agree that Amazon is apparently not as recognizable to an end-user as those other companies. I don't think that diminishes their role in the landscape, and I don't totally trust your opinion that they are so conveniently replaceable.

Re: Face opera

#89

Post by benburleson »

klausa wrote: post #18

I'm really baffled by all those people saying that they will stop using Opera if FB acquires them. I mean - okay, If they start modifying it to send your data to Facebook without way to opt-out - sure, do that. If they start showing ads in fastmail and reading your mails - sure, that's reasonable. But I really think that doing that the moment FB acquires Opera would be quite an overreaction.

Does anyone here actually trust Zuckerberg?

Re: Face opera

#90

Post by benburleson »

chewxy wrote: post #2

I'll stop using Opera (currently my default browser) if facebook acquires it. Such is the level of trust I have over facebook.

I assume that regular Opera users lean toward the geeky side of the spectrum. The same demographic has a pretty sour taste for facebook and Zuckerberg. There's no way Opera usage will remain what it is if FB is running the show.
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