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Germany solar power output jumps to record highs

reuters.com

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Re: Germany solar power output jumps to record highs

#101

Post by kgabis »

j-pb wrote: post #94
kgabis wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU estimates that in a 80% renewable grid you need approx 30% storage capacity. So let's assume we need 40% storage capacity for a 100% grid. Fortunately there's no such thing as diminishing returns and we can just make assumptions like this without any backing./s

He said without providing any backing. But sure let's take a paper that estimated costs for the 100% renewable case: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac4dc8#... They estimate €80 per MWh for an entirely renewable System. So do you want to provide a study that has some contradicting numbers, or do you just want to admit that no amount of evidence is going to change your mind and move on?

This study assumes 54.8 TWh of hydrogen storage, good luck with that.

Re: Germany solar power output jumps to record highs

#102

Post by Maakuth »

j-pb wrote: post #36
Maakuth wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the parent's criticism was limited to the last three closures, but the whole fleet that was shut down starting 2011.

The 3 year solar capacity includes every reactor ever build in germany, including those decomissioned _before_ 2011.

That's very impressive amount of solar capacity, but the nameplate power is not super useful measure in solar, as the capacity factor for solar is somewhere between 10-15% in Germany, while for nuclear it's more like 90%. To get rid of fossil fuels in Germany, a ton of natgas heating would need to be replaced with electric heat pumps, driving up the power consumption during winter. Solar hardly produces any energy during the winter.

Re: Germany solar power output jumps to record highs

#103

Post by Maakuth »

martin_a wrote: post #23
kgabis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shutting off nuclear power while commissioning new coal and gas plants is anything but being on the right track.

Nuclear reactors were EOL and not even their owners wanted to run them any longer. So please stop spreading your misleading take.

Nuclear operators try to minimize losses of the shutdown by not replacing parts that are still workable until the shutdown. When you know of the impending shutdown, you can plan for the plant to be as EOL as possible. If you plan for long term use, parts are replaced gradually so that there's no big revamp pending.

Re: Germany solar power output jumps to record highs

#104

Post by defrost »

kgabis wrote: post #101
j-pb wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said without providing any backing. But sure let's take a paper that estimated costs for the 100% renewable case: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac4dc8#... They estimate €80 per MWh for an entirely renewable System. So do you want to provide a study that has some contradicting numbers, or do you just want to admit that no amount of evidence is going to change your mind and move on?

This study assumes 54.8 TWh of hydrogen storage, good luck with that.

That's between 1.5 and 2 million tonnes of hydrogen .. in a world that currently produces about 74 million tonnes of hydrogen annually already.

There are multiple sources for those interested, https://www.carboncommentary.com/blog/2021/6/11/some-rules-o... is a brief dot point page, the Hydrogen UK and European Hydrogen Backbone reports are longer more detailed technical report papers.

Re: Germany solar power output jumps to record highs

#105

Post by kgabis »

defrost wrote: post #104
kgabis wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study assumes 54.8 TWh of hydrogen storage, good luck with that.

That's between 1.5 and 2 million tonnes of hydrogen .. in a world that currently produces about 74 million tonnes of hydrogen annually already. There are multiple sources for those interested, https://www.carboncommentary.com/blog/2021/6/11/some-rules-o... is a brief dot point page, the Hydrogen UK and European Hydrogen Backbone reports are longer more detailed technical report papers.

Cool link, thanks. But speaking about hydrogen production and not storage is a bit misleading: currently we can story only 0.5TWh of energy using hydrogen WORLDWIDE, and this paper proposes 55TWh just for Germany. Currently, hydrogen is mostly used for greenwashing fossil fuels, with a promise that if be build infrastructure using "bad" hydrogen, we will be ready when "good" hydrogen arrives.

Re: Germany solar power output jumps to record highs

#106

Post by j-pb »

Kuinox wrote: post #99
j-pb wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The target I set in my example was 100% Renewables. No carbon is not enough for zero carbon? Btw the EU wants 80% renewables by 2050, that includes coal guzzlers like poland. Germany wants 100% renewables by 2035. So you're barking at the wrong tree.

So you say Germany is already doing enough ? The tree I'm barking at kills thousands of European every year by burning coal, and finance anti-nuclear propaganda. https://env-health.org/IMG/pdf/dark_cloud-full_report_final.... https://www.ege.fr/sites/ege.fr/files/media_files/German_Int...

Your pro-nuclear propaganda is just anti-renewable propaganda in a trench-coat.

Should germany do more? Yes!

Is it great that france spend the last 70 years building 0-CO2 emmision power plants? Yes!

Should germany spend its money on the cheapest, most available technology? Yes!

Is your nuclear greenwash for new reactors in germany an obvious conservative derailment strategy to delay more investment in renewables? Yes! (you might actually believe this stuff, but german conservative parties that use this dogwhistle certainly don't)

Re: Germany solar power output jumps to record highs

#107

Post by j-pb »

kgabis wrote: post #105
defrost wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's between 1.5 and 2 million tonnes of hydrogen .. in a world that currently produces about 74 million tonnes of hydrogen annually already. There are multiple sources for those interested, https://www.carboncommentary.com/blog/2021/6/11/some-rules-o... is a brief dot point page, the Hydrogen UK and European Hydrogen Backbone reports are longer more detailed technical report papers.

Cool link, thanks. But speaking about hydrogen production and not storage is a bit misleading: currently we can story only 0.5TWh of energy using hydrogen WORLDWIDE, and this paper proposes 55TWh just for Germany. Currently, hydrogen is mostly used for greenwashing fossil fuels, with a promise that if be build infrastructure using "bad" hydrogen, we will be ready when "good" hydrogen arrives.

Yeah its used for greenwashing. But you wanted a 100% study and I provided one.

Our point is that nuclear is used exactly for the same purpose: "We don't need to invest into renewables, because fusion and nuclear is gonna magically save us all in 10 years."

Again it's great that france has this much nuclear right now. But that's not a good path for the rest of europe catching up. Especially not with the current price trajectories. (Nuclear becoming more expensive, storage and renewables getting cheaper)

Re: Germany solar power output jumps to record highs

#108

Post by kgabis »

j-pb wrote: post #107
kgabis wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool link, thanks. But speaking about hydrogen production and not storage is a bit misleading: currently we can story only 0.5TWh of energy using hydrogen WORLDWIDE, and this paper proposes 55TWh just for Germany. Currently, hydrogen is mostly used for greenwashing fossil fuels, with a promise that if be build infrastructure using "bad" hydrogen, we will be ready when "good" hydrogen arrives.

Yeah its used for greenwashing. But you wanted a 100% study and I provided one. Our point is that nuclear is used exactly for the same purpose: "We don't need to invest into renewables, because fusion and nuclear is gonna magically save us all in 10 years." Again it's great that france has this much nuclear right now. But that's not a good path for the rest of europe catching up. Especially not with the current price…

I'm not saying we shouldn't invest in renewables, but that we need to consider their limitations, primarily intermittency and unfeasability of storing TWhs of energy for later. At the same time, we need to find a way to cheaply and fast build new nuclear power stations (like Korea and China are doing). Time is running out, yet a large group of public opposes the single biggest source of clean energy there is.
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