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Bossware is a big legal risk

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Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#11

Post by Havoc »

Never seen anything like this IRL despite working at various major companies. Hell the other day I explained to my rather senior boss that the yellow teams icon means away from desk.

Work is me trading my time for money, and I can begrudgingly accept some level of monitoring. That's after all what a boss is - they supervise aka monitor.

However the blurrying of boundaries really irks me. This is part of the reason why I carry two phones, refuse to use remote desktops from personal devices and definitely don't connect personal devices to corporate wifi. Similarly that aggressive invasive student exam monitoring software in use makes me thankful I studied in more classic times.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#12

Post by Terr_ »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #7

I was surprised (perhaps I shouldn't have been) to encounter bossware-like surveilance in an interview process . About 6 months ago I was interviewing with InterSystems, a company that does healthcare software. Only when I signed in for the online coding interview did I learn that they required I have a webcam on myself the whole time. I don't like using coarse language. But it was the first time I struggled to not u…

IMO there's a huge difference between "we do this because we had too many fraudulent applicants and this is a compromise compared to having you interview in-person" versus "this is representative of how the entire employment relationship will go."

If the former, their fears are not unfounded: Sometimes the person who impressed you in the interview is not actually the same person who arrives for their first day of work. There are also less-audacious forms of interview cheating, where an off-screen cyber-Cyrano is supplying them with answers and/or keyboard-input.

That said, I agree that any workplace with a "webcam on at all times for monitoring" policy for employees is one I would leave ASAP. Not just because it's hostile and offensive, but also because it's indicative of the company doing badly while management is busy "rearranging deck-chairs on the Titanic."

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#13

Post by imzadi »

exabrial wrote: post #9

The reasons given are pretty much a nothingburger and standard compliance items you should be doing anyway! I am trying to figure out what exactly is the problem people have though: you're literally on a company asset, being paid by the company, you've signed copyright away, you're aware their is no expectation of privacy. Use your cell phone or your home computer for home business, work during company hours, doesn't…

Why should employers be allowed to take pictures and videos of me without my permission or knowledge? If I work from home, how much of my home is now the company's business? Should my employer be allowed to see my home office at will? What if my home office is a bedroom and have private things around that I don't want them to see? Or a living room and I have family moving around in the background? Does my employer actually have a right to film my spouse or children?

There are also issues beyond those. What about employers that require you to install software on your person phone so you can access MFA or work email? Some of that software requires you to sign all rights away from your personal phone and there's a risk you may have all your data deleted on your personal phone when you leave the company.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#14

Post by exabrial »

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #10
exabrial wrote: post #9

The reasons given are pretty much a nothingburger and standard compliance items you should be doing anyway! I am trying to figure out what exactly is the problem people have though: you're literally on a company asset, being paid by the company, you've signed copyright away, you're aware their is no expectation of privacy. Use your cell phone or your home computer for home business, work during company hours, doesn't…

Because workers arent slaves or robots, and being on the job doesnt make them such. Your mentality is actually staggering to me.

Can you answer this question directly:

What is it that you don't want seen by a company representative, on a company computer, while being paid by the company?

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#15

Post by tetromino_ »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #7

I was surprised (perhaps I shouldn't have been) to encounter bossware-like surveilance in an interview process . About 6 months ago I was interviewing with InterSystems, a company that does healthcare software. Only when I signed in for the online coding interview did I learn that they required I have a webcam on myself the whole time. I don't like using coarse language. But it was the first time I struggled to not u…

In light of interview fraud, it seems reasonable for the interviewer to request that you are live on camera so they can see that you are who you say you are and that you are working alone.

The part that would have made me walk away would have been if the video was being recorded and retained, as opposed to merely being watched live.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#16

Post by toss1 »

triyambakam wrote: post #2

So how do I know if my work computer features such surveillance?

As many others said, assume that it does, by default.

Do you have admin rights, including to the firmware? Can you, and did you setup from scratch the device that you received from the from the employer? If not, then it is almost 100% there is surveillance. If they let you do all the setup, then maybe 50%.

Just isolate any box your employer touches, both physically and in the network sense, separate visible and sound space as possible, separate WiFi network, etc..

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#17

Post by vundercind »

exabrial wrote: post #14
BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because workers arent slaves or robots, and being on the job doesnt make them such. Your mentality is actually staggering to me.

Can you answer this question directly: What is it that you don't want seen by a company representative, on a company computer, while being paid by the company?

How would you feel about audio recording in break rooms and hallways? How about fart-detectors in the chairs, recording all that to some database?

Same idea, and maybe you wouldn’t mind but surely you can see why many people would.

FWIW enough people do mind that this kind of thing is illegal in some countries.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#18

Post by skwirl »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #7

I was surprised (perhaps I shouldn't have been) to encounter bossware-like surveilance in an interview process . About 6 months ago I was interviewing with InterSystems, a company that does healthcare software. Only when I signed in for the online coding interview did I learn that they required I have a webcam on myself the whole time. I don't like using coarse language. But it was the first time I struggled to not u…

That doesn’t sound bossware-like at all. It seems completely reasonable to me.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#19

Post by jonathankoren »

exabrial wrote: post #9

The reasons given are pretty much a nothingburger and standard compliance items you should be doing anyway! I am trying to figure out what exactly is the problem people have though: you're literally on a company asset, being paid by the company, you've signed copyright away, you're aware their is no expectation of privacy. Use your cell phone or your home computer for home business, work during company hours, doesn't…

You want to know how the Overton window shifted from workers as humans, to workers as property? Look at laws around the telephone.

If you have a telephone on your desk, it is illegal for your employer to secretly listen into those calls. However, if you send an email, you employer has every right to secretly read them.

The only difference is, emails don’t exist in the 30s, but telephones did.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#20

Post by halfcat »

triyambakam wrote: post #2

So how do I know if my work computer features such surveillance?

Generally you won’t, but some vendors documentation lists folder paths you can check, like if this folder exists in your computer it’s running Teramind [1]:

C:\ProgramData\{4CEC2908-5CE4-48F0-A717-8FC833D8017A}

[1] https://kb.teramind.co/en/articles/8791095-how-to-verify-if-...

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