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Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

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121–130 of 160 posts

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#121
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just brush your teeth twice a day.

Seriously - this is interesting tech but it seems like a mostly solved problem. Brush your teeth when you wake up, then floss and brush them again before you sleep. Once it's routine (hopefully established in youth) it seems extremely easy to maintain.

It's evidently not a solved problem- 80% of Americans have had a cavity by their mid thirties. I very much doubt even 5% of them were never told to brush their teeth.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#122
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for mastic, completely nontoxic and it's been used for thousands of years. My cavity problems have pretty much disappeared since discovering it several years ago.

Any brand you recommend?

For someone trying it for the first time, I would recommend the Falim chewing gum, available on Amazon, or the mint-flavored toothpaste at mastic.gr. If you feel comfortable trying pure mastic, the best quality that I've found are the large tears from Chios Mastiha Growers Association.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#123
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just xylitol but also mastic gum, which, in addition to cavities prevention, kills H. pylori and strengthens your jaw muscles as it's a bit harder than regular chewing gum.

Any specific brands you trust?

I buy certified masic gum from Greece on Amazon [0] from one major importer of Greek products (Krinos).

[0]: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LQLIWM/

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#124
post #116
post #8

Whenever this topic comes up on HN it strikes me as bizarre that anyone thinks they can genetically modify a bacteria, release it into the wild - and that it'll stay genetically modified? Like the author mentions, bacteria are constantly swapping genes via horizontal gene transfer. Surely the bacteria in our mouths have found the optimal metabolism for their environment? Why wouldn't we expect our genetically modifie…

> ...create a Rube Goldberg machine in their genes that, say, killed them.. Bacteria are not machines, DNA is node code. Life is very different from mechanics

it's awfully close though https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source...

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#125
post #4

> I’ve also been disappointed for some months to see how many people I respect (and some I don’t respect) have been using it/promoting it. Taking unapproved drugs is a bad idea, no matter what rationalist bloggers with MDs, porn star/escort/sex researchers, Twitter guys, or conservative firebrands who get sick immediately after taking the unapproved drug tell you. The "rationalist community" has always been quirky an…

I'm sure it's been posted to HN before but Scott Alexander's writing on the FDA is pretty nuanced. "Beyond "Abolish The FDA"[0] is pro-FDA but contains the section "What policy proposal closest to abolish-the-FDA would I feel comfortable supporting in the real world?"

He's been pretty explicit on Lumina too:

"My real opinion, as precisely as I can express it, is:

* Advance of approximately the same magnitude as fluoride: 5%

* Good on balance, comparable to other beneficial dental treatments: 35%

* Doesn’t work in its current form, but could easily be modified into something that does: 10%

* Doesn’t work at all and never will: 50%

* Causes minor side effects for some people, same scale as Tylenol: 30%

* Causes medium side effects, same scale as tricyclics: 5%

* Causes disastrous side effects, same scale as thalidomide: [0] https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/beyond-abolish-the-fda [1] https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/updates-on-lumina-probiotic

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#126
post #36
post #8

Whenever this topic comes up on HN it strikes me as bizarre that anyone thinks they can genetically modify a bacteria, release it into the wild - and that it'll stay genetically modified? Like the author mentions, bacteria are constantly swapping genes via horizontal gene transfer. Surely the bacteria in our mouths have found the optimal metabolism for their environment? Why wouldn't we expect our genetically modifie…

> I imagine that you could, at least on paper, create a Rube Goldberg machine in their genes that, say, killed them if they produced lactic acid It’s like Jurassic Park’s “Lysine Contingency”, but in your mouth

I do not think "Jurassic Park, but in your mouth" is a winning marketing angle.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#127
post #94

A simpler alternative is xylitol. Not a drug, no FDA approval required. It's a plant-based sweetener that cavity-causing mouth bacteria love to ingest, but which provides no sustenance to them. It essentially fills them up and then causes them to starve them to death, helping maintain minimum mouth bacteria. No bacteria, no cavities. Get it in mints or gum like Zellies or PUR (the only two I've found that don't inclu…

Please be careful pushing xylitol, "sugar alcohols" are neither a sugar or an alcohol. This, of course, is exactly the thing that makes them desirable as a sweetener substitute, the body doesn't really know what to do with the stuff, and, presumably, neither do common mouth bacteria. Sugar alcohols are known for causing digestive troubles, for this very reason, with the most notorious example being the Haribo "sugar…

Its twin brother is in serious trouble, too:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/27/health/zero-calorie-sweet...

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#128
post #116
post #8

Whenever this topic comes up on HN it strikes me as bizarre that anyone thinks they can genetically modify a bacteria, release it into the wild - and that it'll stay genetically modified? Like the author mentions, bacteria are constantly swapping genes via horizontal gene transfer. Surely the bacteria in our mouths have found the optimal metabolism for their environment? Why wouldn't we expect our genetically modifie…

> ...create a Rube Goldberg machine in their genes that, say, killed them.. Bacteria are not machines, DNA is node code. Life is very different from mechanics

You can, however, build machines using genes. Eg I met someone who was working on research to come up with sets of genes that implemented low level programming primitives, like "if". When some chemical concentration reaches a certain level, a gene is turned on or off. This is fundamental to how cells work, they're just trying to repurpose the machinery that's already there (if you'll forgive the metaphor).

The research I've heard of that I was thinking about here was about splicing genes in such a way that in order to remove it, you will also need to remove genes necessary for reproduction.

I'm not a geneticist and it's been a long time since I've read about this type of thing, so if I'm mistaken or if you know more, I'm all ears.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#129

A simpler alternative is xylitol. Not a drug, no FDA approval required. It's a plant-based sweetener that cavity-causing mouth bacteria love to ingest, but which provides no sustenance to them. It essentially fills them up and then causes them to starve them to death, helping maintain minimum mouth bacteria. No bacteria, no cavities. Get it in mints or gum like Zellies or PUR (the only two I've found that don't inclu…

Will bacterias evolve themselves to become xylitol-resistant? That's the same reason I'm hesitant to use xylitol or the like to treat stuffy nose.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#130
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any brand you recommend?

For someone trying it for the first time, I would recommend the Falim chewing gum, available on Amazon, or the mint-flavored toothpaste at mastic.gr. If you feel comfortable trying pure mastic, the best quality that I've found are the large tears from Chios Mastiha Growers Association.

Thanks!
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