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Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

trevorklee.substack.com

61–70 of 160 posts

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#61
post #5

I was hoping for a more thorough explanation for why this particular regimen is dangerous. Instead this is a rather lengthy essay which ultimately relies on the appeal to authority fallacy. Not to say I think people should just put random things into their bodies - It is indeed probably not the best idea. That said, I'm not sure I learned anything new after reading this.

Citing published articles is not generally considered appeal to authority.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the plant. I've got two GMO plants in my house right now; glow-in-the-dark petunias ( https://light.bio/ ) and purple tomatoes ( https://www.norfolkhealthyproduce.com/ ). The tomatoes breed true (i.e. the seeds have the gene); the petunias do not and must be cloned via propagation. Roses, fruit trees, etc. are the latter.

How's the glow on those petunias in pitch black? Those look absolutely amazing and the ad is hilarious enough to make me want to pick some up.

In pitch black they're very visible unless you're going immediately from bright sunlight. With 5-10 mins of adjusting it's really something.

The photos on the site are definitely long exposure, but I'm pretty pleasantly surprised in person.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#63
There is a huge difference in dose between “bacteria in your mouth producing an antibiotic” and “taking an antibiotic for an infection”. Bacteria, even the normal bacteria currently present in your mouth even without taking BCS3L-1, constantly produce antibiotics to kill competing bacteria. But they only produce tiny amounts, enough to affect the competitors in their immediate vicinity, but not nearly enough to cause any kind of systemic effect. If they did, you would already be experiencing these effects right now from all the other antibiotics produced by other bacteria in your mouth. In contrast, antibiotics for medical use are usually given in doses measured in the hundreds of milligrams or even grams, far more than mouth bacteria could ever possibly produce.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#64
post #47

As soon as I understood "it kills the bacteria in your mouth... by making it a permanently alcoholic environment" I was out.

The negligible alcohol production is just a side effect, the alcohol itself does not kill the bacteria.

Sorry, I didn't know that - I thought it was the mechanism. I appreciate the correction.

I don't like having alcohol there 24/7 but I concede that, this being true, it's not the issue I may have thought it was. I would want the FDA to sign off on it being okay, however.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#65
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that note, I wonder how kissing affects our mouth bacteria. Like, does making out with someone transfer enough bacteria between the two people to make a difference?

Babies are born without the mouth bacteria that cause cavities, and generally acquire them from their parents (e.g. kissing or sharing utensils).

Or transmitting prechewed food. That's the old school way.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#66
post #46

A simpler alternative is xylitol. Not a drug, no FDA approval required. It's a plant-based sweetener that cavity-causing mouth bacteria love to ingest, but which provides no sustenance to them. It essentially fills them up and then causes them to starve them to death, helping maintain minimum mouth bacteria. No bacteria, no cavities. Get it in mints or gum like Zellies or PUR (the only two I've found that don't inclu…

I worry this would impact your gut microflora too. Imagine the downstream systemic effects and diseases this might trigger.

No swallowing maybe

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#68
Relating to fluoride's effect on bacterial biofilm - There are several different kinds of fluoride available in toothpaste, and they do not all have the same efficacy against bacterial plaque. Stannous fluoride is considerably more effective than sodium fluoride or sodium monofluorophosphate, but you may need to pay a small amount more for it and actually read the packaging to find it.

It's hard to find a website discussing it that is not paid for by a toothpaste company, but here's something. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24660268/

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#69
post #4

> I’ve also been disappointed for some months to see how many people I respect (and some I don’t respect) have been using it/promoting it. Taking unapproved drugs is a bad idea, no matter what rationalist bloggers with MDs, porn star/escort/sex researchers, Twitter guys, or conservative firebrands who get sick immediately after taking the unapproved drug tell you. The "rationalist community" has always been quirky an…

Being anti-FDA has been a meme in the rationalist community for several years

The FDA is bad: https://jakeseliger.com/2023/07/22/i-am-dying-of-squamous-ce... and I'm dying largely because of their torpor and intransigence. It's not just "a meme." It's my life.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#70
post #2

> Taking unapproved drugs is a bad idea What about off-label medication? I don't think taking Lumina is smart, more or less for the reasons the author ennumerates. I also think it's unlikely enough to hurt people that FDA approval shouldn't be required. There's a lot of stuff in that category!

>I also think it's unlikely enough to hurt people that FDA approval shouldn't be required. The author has provided some solid arguments that this is not the case. Why do you think so?

I actually don't think the author provided very good arguments. It was my only real beef with the article: "this might do bad things" gets rounded off to "this is dangerous", even though his sources don't say the bad things will happen. They simply might happen.
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