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Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

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Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#41

Post by testfoobar »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #17

A simpler alternative is xylitol. Not a drug, no FDA approval required. It's a plant-based sweetener that cavity-causing mouth bacteria love to ingest, but which provides no sustenance to them. It essentially fills them up and then causes them to starve them to death, helping maintain minimum mouth bacteria. No bacteria, no cavities. Get it in mints or gum like Zellies or PUR (the only two I've found that don't inclu…

FDA site on Xylitol and dogs:

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/paws-xylitol-...

Merck Vet Manual:

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/toxicology/food-hazards/xylit...

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#42

Post by ceejayoz »

maxbond wrote: post #35
ceejayoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the plant. I've got two GMO plants in my house right now; glow-in-the-dark petunias ( https://light.bio/ ) and purple tomatoes ( https://www.norfolkhealthyproduce.com/ ). The tomatoes breed true (i.e. the seeds have the gene); the petunias do not and must be cloned via propagation. Roses, fruit trees, etc. are the latter.

But those aren't really in the wild, right? They're in your garden? If they were left to their own devices and started to breed with wild type tomatoes, and/or were subject to selective pressures for an extended period, they probably would either abandon the gene or discover a niche it was adaptive for? Glow in the dark petunias sound really cool, I want those.

The point is the gene may or may not be passed down at all.

It's possible my glowing petunia has some sort of advantage - the energy use going into the light might be balanced by attracting bugs at night, perhaps - but its seeds won't ever have the adaptation.

The purple tomato, on the other hand, if more attractive to birds who might eat and spread its seeds, might have more likelihood to spread.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#43

Post by somenameforme »

aspectmin wrote: post #19
maxbond wrote: post #8

Whenever this topic comes up on HN it strikes me as bizarre that anyone thinks they can genetically modify a bacteria, release it into the wild - and that it'll stay genetically modified? Like the author mentions, bacteria are constantly swapping genes via horizontal gene transfer. Surely the bacteria in our mouths have found the optimal metabolism for their environment? Why wouldn't we expect our genetically modifie…

>Whenever this topic comes up on HN it strikes me as bizarre that anyone thinks they can genetically modify a bacteria, release it into the wild - and that it'll stay genetically modified? Hubris? I'm all for progress and innovation. We need to couch such progress through the lens of thinking through the potential impacts of such progress though.

$$$ is a much easier explanation. People selling things that they know won't work in the way they claim is as old as time. Never attribute to incompetence that which can be attributed to malice, when it involves earning a ton of money.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#44

Post by ceejayoz »

SamBam wrote: post #33
ceejayoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the plant. I've got two GMO plants in my house right now; glow-in-the-dark petunias ( https://light.bio/ ) and purple tomatoes ( https://www.norfolkhealthyproduce.com/ ). The tomatoes breed true (i.e. the seeds have the gene); the petunias do not and must be cloned via propagation. Roses, fruit trees, etc. are the latter.

The tomatoes will only breed true so long as they are hand-bred or kept in an environment where no other types of tomatoes are around. And even then mutations will eventually creep in. Same goes with the bacteria, except you may be talking about days or weeks instead of years.

Tomatoes are largely self-polinating.

Yes, mutations will creep in, but the gene will persist more based on a) can it be passed down to seeds and b) does it infer an advantage in natural selection?

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#45

Post by generalizations »

Aurornis wrote: post #4

> I’ve also been disappointed for some months to see how many people I respect (and some I don’t respect) have been using it/promoting it. Taking unapproved drugs is a bad idea, no matter what rationalist bloggers with MDs, porn star/escort/sex researchers, Twitter guys, or conservative firebrands who get sick immediately after taking the unapproved drug tell you. The "rationalist community" has always been quirky an…

> person who was caught using a pseudonym

You mean doxxed. Since when do we condone doxxing?

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#46

Post by echelon »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #17

A simpler alternative is xylitol. Not a drug, no FDA approval required. It's a plant-based sweetener that cavity-causing mouth bacteria love to ingest, but which provides no sustenance to them. It essentially fills them up and then causes them to starve them to death, helping maintain minimum mouth bacteria. No bacteria, no cavities. Get it in mints or gum like Zellies or PUR (the only two I've found that don't inclu…

I worry this would impact your gut microflora too. Imagine the downstream systemic effects and diseases this might trigger.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#48

Post by culi »

nikolay wrote: post #38
SkyMarshal wrote: post #17

A simpler alternative is xylitol. Not a drug, no FDA approval required. It's a plant-based sweetener that cavity-causing mouth bacteria love to ingest, but which provides no sustenance to them. It essentially fills them up and then causes them to starve them to death, helping maintain minimum mouth bacteria. No bacteria, no cavities. Get it in mints or gum like Zellies or PUR (the only two I've found that don't inclu…

Also, recently there was a study that DIM also kills only the harmful bacteria in the mouth.

3,3′-Diindolylmethane (DIM). Found in cruciferous vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, mustard, cress, nasturtium, arugala, radish, etc)

Also sold as bisindole which is a class of natural products derived from oxidative dimerization of tryptophan.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#49

Post by tptacek »

generalizations wrote: post #45
Aurornis wrote: post #4

> I’ve also been disappointed for some months to see how many people I respect (and some I don’t respect) have been using it/promoting it. Taking unapproved drugs is a bad idea, no matter what rationalist bloggers with MDs, porn star/escort/sex researchers, Twitter guys, or conservative firebrands who get sick immediately after taking the unapproved drug tell you. The "rationalist community" has always been quirky an…

> person who was caught using a pseudonym You mean doxxed. Since when do we condone doxxing?

I don't think we have to have this subthread, but opinion on what happened here is anything but unified --- if you're talking about Alexander. If you're talking about Hanania, calling what happened to him a "doxing" would be closer to a fringe opinion.

Re: Reasons not to take Lumina's anticavity probiotic

#50

Post by clumsysmurf »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #17

A simpler alternative is xylitol. Not a drug, no FDA approval required. It's a plant-based sweetener that cavity-causing mouth bacteria love to ingest, but which provides no sustenance to them. It essentially fills them up and then causes them to starve them to death, helping maintain minimum mouth bacteria. No bacteria, no cavities. Get it in mints or gum like Zellies or PUR (the only two I've found that don't inclu…

Ehh, I tried it, like 15 years ago, but had to stop taking it for the reasons mentioned here:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-04-qa-xylitol-teeth-swee...

What is the recommended daily dosage of xylitol for oral health?

"The recommended amount for cavity protection is 6 to 10 grams. And it's best to spread doses out throughout the day. So, if you want dental benefit from chewing xylitol-added gum, you should chew the gum for at least 20 minutes to extract the xylitol. That can be a lot of stress on the temporomandibular joints (in the jaw), so if you have problems with your TMJ, it's not a good idea to excessively chew gum."

That's a lot of Xylitol. It got expensive quickly, and I was heading towards TMJ dysfunction. Xylitol is also considered a high FODMAP, so if you are on a low FODMAP diet its best to avoid.

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