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The most talented person in the world

matt.sh

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Re: The most talented person in the world

#141

Post by mafuku »

WithinReason wrote: post #119
Uehreka wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no I’m gonna need more than that chief. Everything I know about LLMs says the opposite.

Look up Generative Adversarial Networks, that's their basic principle. You're not classifying just text, you're classifying entire web pages.

Yeah, but the theoretical endpoint of training a GAN is that the generator gets so good that the discriminator has to resort to guesses and become unable to tell with any sort of accuracy as to whether the example it is shown is real or generated.

Re: The most talented person in the world

#142

Post by pdonis »

I don't see this issue the way the author of this article does. Both the stated problem and the stated solution seem overblown to me.

First, what jumped out at me when I read the article was that I had never heard of Jodie Chiffey before reading the article. I don't see all the trash the author is talking about because I don't spend any time on websites that promote it, or dealing with spam emails from sources of it, etc., etc. I can get along just fine with simply ignoring the existence of all the trash and going to websites (like this one) that I actually want to go to.

And how am I able to go to websites like this one without being overwhelmed by trash? Because (a) this website is managed by actual people who aren't interested in spamming me, and (b) HTTPS means I know that when I go to "news.ycombinator.com" I am going to a site managed by those people. In other words, we already have the actual solution to the "how do I avoid the trash" problem, and have had it for decades. We do not need to build a huge new spyware infrastructure to "fix" the web. We already have, and are using, the tools we need to avoid the trash.

Re: The most talented person in the world

#143

Post by WithinReason »

mafuku wrote: post #141
WithinReason wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up Generative Adversarial Networks, that's their basic principle. You're not classifying just text, you're classifying entire web pages.

Yeah, but the theoretical endpoint of training a GAN is that the generator gets so good that the discriminator has to resort to guesses and become unable to tell with any sort of accuracy as to whether the example it is shown is real or generated.

I don't think that ever happens in training, at least in the image domain. The classifier can always can find some subtle clue.

Re: The most talented person in the world

#144

Post by throwaway290 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #129
throwaway290 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not spam. Watch what you subscribe for and periodically unsubscribe, done.

I don't subscribe for anything of this kind, and if something somehow gets into my inbox, I report it as spam and then unsubscribe. All that is very much spam. I'm never interested in marketing material from vendors. Doesn't stop them from padding every single e-mail with it.

Then it is spam, my bad. I get next to nothing somehow maybe once a week at most...

Re: The most talented person in the world

#145

Post by sniggers »

fxtentacle wrote: post #107
itissid wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds a bit more like you want to do something reranking-ish. Ideally, you would train a retrieval system to retrieve the most relevant pages which would inturn have been trained on a dataset not very different from MS-Marco. This would get you a small set of documents you want to rerank. For reranking to be able to detect commercial bias, insincerity or bloat you could use LLMs but IIRC you train a multiclass class…

I think Kagi should add a feature where I can subscribe to the domain blocks of someone else. Every time I see a spam blog, I can easily prevent the domain from polluting future results. But it'd be great if I could also use my friends lists to rank their blocked domains to the end of my search results.

This is definitely the best option. Community search blocklists, like uBlock Origin

Re: The most talented person in the world

#146

Post by giantrobot »

roughly wrote: post #14

The reason all of this exists - the reason the entire Internet turned into an unusable amalgam of horseshit - is because we built the entire commercial side of the internet off ad revenue. It might be a death spiral at this point - I can’t imagine anyone actually being willing to Pay for whatever the fuck Google or Facebook have become, so there’s nothing left to do but keep inventing new ways to generate bullshit an…

> is because we built the entire commercial side of the internet off ad revenue

The root problem there is it's not practical in today's world to pay the small sums individual bits of content are actually worth. The smallest practical transact-able value is about a dollar. With service fees you can't go much below that value before you make no money or lose money. Even then it's really only practical for large scale players.

A single news article is not worth a dollar. A tweet or HN comment is worth nowhere near a dollar. Even if I found some HN comment worth money...how is my payment going to get to you and not eaten by HN?

Crypto bullshit is not the answer at all. It's worse for transactions in every way than regular money. It pretends to be a solution to micropayments by ignoring the very real and very onerous transaction fees and deflationary nature of the currency. There's been efforts to deal with micropayments but it's a hard problem. Paying individuals is difficult and transacting in practical (sub-cent values) is extremely difficult to do.

Ads are an imperfect but working-ish solution to micropayments. They allow the customer to "pay" with attention (though now with intrusive tracking) rather than currency. AdTech has gone bonkers with tracking and targeting and has gleefully participated in facilitating the Dead Internet.

Re: The most talented person in the world

#147

Post by ultrasaurus »

fxtentacle wrote: post #108
sebtron wrote: post #106

> The only future of the internet is, sadly, proof-of-person and proof-of-residence on every public network interaction. I really hope we do not give up the internet's freedom as they suggest (and I doubt this would solve the spam problem).

As much as I hate the idea, I'm convinced it would be a godsent for 99% of the population. Just imagine when you buy your SIM card the phone shop asks you: Do you want to limit incoming calls to people who you either called before or who have ever had a permanent residence in your country? 99% of spam and scam calls blocked, just like that. And just imagine how hilarious it would be if all those Nigerian prince email…

Personally I'd start with the phone system guaranteeing that the person calling me owns the number that shows up on the call display. That's how people already assume it works and would cut 90% of the spammiest of spam calls while still letting folks with family in Nigeria choose to answer those calls.

Re: The most talented person in the world

#148

Post by mentos »

berniedurfee wrote: post #133
sebtron wrote: post #106

> The only future of the internet is, sadly, proof-of-person and proof-of-residence on every public network interaction. I really hope we do not give up the internet's freedom as they suggest (and I doubt this would solve the spam problem).

I think it’s the only way forward. I wrote a blog post about this recently. I think abandoning anonymity is the only way forward and I think it’ll be glorious.

Share the blog post?

I remember in my 2005 high school political science class proposing fake legislation to require ID to go on the internet.

For the past 20 years I’ve shuttered at how awful an idea that would be and how naive I was as a kid.

But now I am curious how all of the externalities would play out.

Re: The most talented person in the world

#149

Post by berniedurfee »

mentos wrote: post #148
berniedurfee wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s the only way forward. I wrote a blog post about this recently. I think abandoning anonymity is the only way forward and I think it’ll be glorious.

Share the blog post? I remember in my 2005 high school political science class proposing fake legislation to require ID to go on the internet. For the past 20 years I’ve shuttered at how awful an idea that would be and how naive I was as a kid. But now I am curious how all of the externalities would play out.

https://berniedurfee.substack.com/p/end-anonymity-on-the-int...

Re: The most talented person in the world

#150

Post by berniedurfee »

sverona wrote: post #137
berniedurfee wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s the only way forward. I wrote a blog post about this recently. I think abandoning anonymity is the only way forward and I think it’ll be glorious.

I read said blog post. The future you dream of would require, at minimum, vastly improved privacy laws and freedom of identity.

I agree, but I just don’t see an alternative future if we want to maintain an open platform for the global exchange of ideas.

I also don’t feel like this changes the privacy debate. I’m not naive enough to think Google and 1000 other data brokers don’t know exactly who I am.

Having a verifiably unique digital identity wouldn’t change that fact. I’d still want to control when and how data associated with my identity is monetized.

Maybe regulators can force Google et al to digitally watermark data before they sell it, so if I find it elsewhere without my permission I can trace it back to Google and seek remuneration.

I think the only way we get the internet back is to hold everyone accountable that wants to participate.

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