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How to get 7th graders to smoke

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Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#111

Post by nicoburns »

Retric wrote: post #78
vundercind wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The realization that almost all illegal drugs (heroin, meth, a handful like that that feel too good —probably exceptions) aren’t really in some much worse category than alcohol and nicotine, and that some are surely less-bad, even, was quite a revelation. Must be a shared experience for a lot of the DARE generation.

I think people underestimate many illegal drugs because they don’t know long term users. Alcohol and Tobacco have minimal short term health risks. Most people throw up rather than OD on Alcohol. Obviously driving while fucked us is dangerous, but the same is true of a lot of drugs. Driving stoned is an underappreciated risk. LSD arguably the poster child for safe illegal drugs, but still physically risky due to peopl…

LSD is absolutely NOT the poster child for safe illegal drugs:

Something like cannabis, MDMA, or amphetamines would be. I think all of those have a decent claim to being safer than or comparably safe to alcohol.

Tobacco, as you say isn't particularly bad in the short term. But it is particularly addictive, so you end up with a large proportion of addicts / long term users for whom the longer term effects apply.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#112

Post by Der_Einzige »

nvahalik wrote: post #23
nobleach wrote: post #5

Show them a Quentin Tarantino film? ...or any film for that matter where the main characters seem so "cool, unfazed and untouchable". To a young (mostly male) mind, that's the ultimate goal; to be in charge. For most beginning smokers, it's not about the inhalation of tobacco, but the subversive "screw the rules, those don't apply to me" façade. This might sound obvious but, if we want 7th graders not to glorify smok…

Requiem for a dream still haunts me.

Yup, that’s the real anti-drug movie. Stuff like this works. It’s not pleasant though.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#113

Post by ooterness »

cheschire wrote: post #20
Joker_vD wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or run them over with a forklift!

Staplerfahrer Klaus as an anti-smoking mascot. Never would've had that thought before today. Thanks for that.

For those unaware, Staplerfahrer Klaus is a gory, dark-comedy PSA about the hazards of forklifts in warehouses:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJYOkZz6Dck

Most training modules are dry and clinical. This one is the opposite. Many people are killed, dismembered, and otherwise mutilated.

I think the combination of good comedy and vividly illustrated consequences makes Klaus far more effective and memorable than the average corporate training module that OP is discussing.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#114

Post by Retric »

evilsnoopi3 wrote: post #108
Retric wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underestimate many illegal drugs because they don’t know long term users. Alcohol and Tobacco have minimal short term health risks. Most people throw up rather than OD on Alcohol. Obviously driving while fucked us is dangerous, but the same is true of a lot of drugs. Driving stoned is an underappreciated risk. LSD arguably the poster child for safe illegal drugs, but still physically risky due to peopl…

Literally only one of the drugs you mentioned can kill you due to withdrawal. Hint: it's not LSD or tobacco. Alcohol is an _extremely_ harmful drug.

Harm is based on all risks not just the metrics that make what you care about look better. 60% of American adults drink regularly so extreme edge cases happen, but they aren’t anywhere close to the risks from car accidents etc.

Risk of death is significant, but we’re talking under 0.1% per year.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#115

Post by bongodongobob »

parpfish wrote: post #75
hollywood_court wrote: post #60

I have a love/hate relationship with smoking. I quit smoking 5+ years ago when my child was born. But I always loved a smoke with a beer. But I also quit drinking. As a carpenter and electrician, I smoked many cigarettes during my career and they calmed me and allowed me to focus a bit better. However, I finally realized that few things say "hey look at me I'm am absolute idiot" quite like smoking. That's actually wh…

people start out wanting to smoke for whatever reason, but then the addiction kicks in and you just keep smoking even after that reason has passed. among adult smokers, i've always wondered what the breakdown was between people that actively like smoking and want it in their lives versus those that are ambivalent but quitting is too much of a hassle?

I'm a smoker and everyone I know who smokes hates it but it's just so fucking hard to quit. It takes active energy for months and months not to do it.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#116

Post by kelseyfrog »

> We perceive ourselves in full 4000K HD with Dolby Atmos Surround Sound, but when we perceive each other, it’s like we’re watching a VHS tape that someone made by using a Motorola Razr phone c. 2007 to record the screen on the back of an airplane seat.

Does anyone else feel the opposite?

I can much more easily intuit how others feel and synthesize hypotheses on why they behaved the way they did than I can with myself. I have an infinite number of framings and reframings to choose from when it comes to my own behavior that it's difficult to objectively choose. I constantly ask myself how do I know that my own model isn't unconsciously avoiding negative feelings or conversely biased toward being too critical? So much so that I simply give up more than I like to admit.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#117

Post by circus1540 »

arp242 wrote: post #101
Workaccount2 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I was a smoker for many years, the but the actual conversion rate of "drug users" to "drug addicts" is surprisingly low. The overwhelming majority of people who smoke their first cigarette will not die a smoking related death. And cigarettes are probably the most extreme example. How many people who try cocaine end up being the poster case for DARE? It's virtually no one. The risk analysis for having fun with…

I wish you could just buy single cigarettes rather than always getting a pack. I feel that's a big part of the problem right there. It would be like only being able to buy wine in boxes of 20, or beers in crates of 30. Once you have it, you're much more likely to use it. I just want a beer or a bottle of wine this Friday evening, and maybe after that I want a cigarette. And that's it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loosie

yeah I'm not sure how banning sale of loosies is protecting the kids. At 30, I get carded almost always when I buy a pack and almost never when I buy alcohol. If someone is selling to kids, they wouldn't care about this law anyway.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#118

Post by Retric »

nicoburns wrote: post #111
Retric wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underestimate many illegal drugs because they don’t know long term users. Alcohol and Tobacco have minimal short term health risks. Most people throw up rather than OD on Alcohol. Obviously driving while fucked us is dangerous, but the same is true of a lot of drugs. Driving stoned is an underappreciated risk. LSD arguably the poster child for safe illegal drugs, but still physically risky due to peopl…

LSD is absolutely NOT the poster child for safe illegal drugs: Something like cannabis, MDMA, or amphetamines would be. I think all of those have a decent claim to being safer than or comparably safe to alcohol. Tobacco, as you say isn't particularly bad in the short term. But it is particularly addictive, so you end up with a large proportion of addicts / long term users for whom the longer term effects apply.

Cannabis is linked to a significant number of traffic fatalities. Cancer risks are also meaningful with lifetime use so it’s a mix of Alcohol risk and Tobacco risk. Safe enough to be legal, but not really safe.

People have fatal overdoses on MDMA and hart attacks etc.

Amphetamines use is linked with cardiovascular issues and brain damage.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#119

Post by delichon »

cess11 wrote: post #72
delichon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In high school around 1976 we got a talk by the swim team coach, telling us the horrors of various drugs, going into his wide personal experience with them and why we shouldn't follow his example. He told us that if we ever had any questions he was there for us, and gave us all his personal phone number. So me and some buddies got a hold of some peyote and were more than a little afraid of it. We probably would have…

Did the proposed preparation entail heating? Might have described a process that destroyed most of the mescaline to spare you the experience, which can be quite frightening and/or debilitating. I've never come across someone that does more preparation than drying, so to me it seems suspicious to suggest anything else. Mescaline is water soluble so one can make infusions, but it takes a fair bit of plant material to g…

No heating. I was just along for the ride, but I think it was something to do with removing hairs, and to make it less bitter.

Re: How to get 7th graders to smoke

#120

Post by margalabargala »

evilsnoopi3 wrote: post #108
Retric wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underestimate many illegal drugs because they don’t know long term users. Alcohol and Tobacco have minimal short term health risks. Most people throw up rather than OD on Alcohol. Obviously driving while fucked us is dangerous, but the same is true of a lot of drugs. Driving stoned is an underappreciated risk. LSD arguably the poster child for safe illegal drugs, but still physically risky due to peopl…

Literally only one of the drugs you mentioned can kill you due to withdrawal. Hint: it's not LSD or tobacco. Alcohol is an _extremely_ harmful drug.

See, this is where LSD gets interesting.

No, LSD won't kill your body. But what are you? You aren't just your body, you are your mind and mental state and the consistency of that.

Do enough LSD, especially consistent high doses, and the "you" you know will die and be permanently replaced by something else.

I of course agree that LSD won't put you in a coffin. But there are more axes upon which a drug's danger should be evaluated than "what percentage of users are put in coffins?"

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