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A low budget consumer hardware espionage implant (2018)

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Re: A low budget consumer hardware espionage implant (2018)

#21

Post by netsharc »

pmx wrote: post #16
no_time wrote: post #4

Using SMS as the control protocol seems like a bad idea. You are generating evidence with each command sent that may or may not be stored practically forever by the telcos.

Wouldn't someone using this sort of thing also buy a cheap burner phone and throw-away sim card? They're easy to buy with cash and you don't need to register them or anything to use them. Supermarkets in the UK even sell sims with credit already loaded onto them.

I can't imagine the UK doesn't have laws to prevent anonymous SIM card purchases, because of terrorism fears.

Some duckduckgo-ing suggests it's possible, e.g. someone wrote just go to Tesco to get one and there are no ID checks (but this was written 6 years ago). In any case, just like teenagers buying booze, it's probably not that hard to pay someone off the street to buy one for you.

Re: A low budget consumer hardware espionage implant (2018)

#22

Post by snovv_crash »

axegon_ wrote: post #9
no_time wrote: post #4

Using SMS as the control protocol seems like a bad idea. You are generating evidence with each command sent that may or may not be stored practically forever by the telcos.

That is valid for any centralized service in general. Fun fact: I am working on something in that field in my spare time(whenever I have both time and motivation) and I opted for LoRa instead specifically for that reason, even though it comes with a wide range of limitations: payload, range is determined by line of sight, no multiplexing and all that. But did make some real world testing late last year and the range…

The 900MHz bands also have much better penetration. But even the 2.4 LoRa are a huge step up from the other chips I've seen eg. TI CC2500.

Re: A low budget consumer hardware espionage implant (2018)

#24

Post by eythian »

netsharc wrote: post #21
pmx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't someone using this sort of thing also buy a cheap burner phone and throw-away sim card? They're easy to buy with cash and you don't need to register them or anything to use them. Supermarkets in the UK even sell sims with credit already loaded onto them.

I can't imagine the UK doesn't have laws to prevent anonymous SIM card purchases, because of terrorism fears. Some duckduckgo-ing suggests it's possible, e.g. someone wrote just go to Tesco to get one and there are no ID checks (but this was written 6 years ago). In any case, just like teenagers buying booze, it's probably not that hard to pay someone off the street to buy one for you.

It's very country dependent. In NL, NZ, and UK (as of several years ago when I last did that) for example, no ID checks are required. In AU they are.

Re: A low budget consumer hardware espionage implant (2018)

#25

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

pbmonster wrote: post #15
GordonS wrote: post #11

Is there some kind of device that can detect bugs like this? (I'm thinking of the "bug sweepers" I've seen in films)

The article covers that under the section "detection". TL;DR: You can easily detect it while it communicates via GSM, and the device is also shielded quite badly, resulting in lots of easily detectable RF interference while it works. All you need is a cheap RF detector. Having access to a full spectrum analyzer or a SDR will make this even easier. All this gets much harder while the thing lies dormant, waiting for no…

> So the "quick bug sweeps" you see in the movies are more difficult.

Not if the sweepers are talkative (assuming that the device is sound-activated).

Re: A low budget consumer hardware espionage implant (2018)

#26

Post by Mo3 »

eythian wrote: post #24
netsharc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine the UK doesn't have laws to prevent anonymous SIM card purchases, because of terrorism fears. Some duckduckgo-ing suggests it's possible, e.g. someone wrote just go to Tesco to get one and there are no ID checks (but this was written 6 years ago). In any case, just like teenagers buying booze, it's probably not that hard to pay someone off the street to buy one for you.

It's very country dependent. In NL, NZ, and UK (as of several years ago when I last did that) for example, no ID checks are required. In AU they are.

NL here, no ID check whatsoever

Re: A low budget consumer hardware espionage implant (2018)

#27

Post by Crosseye_Jack »

netsharc wrote: post #21
pmx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't someone using this sort of thing also buy a cheap burner phone and throw-away sim card? They're easy to buy with cash and you don't need to register them or anything to use them. Supermarkets in the UK even sell sims with credit already loaded onto them.

I can't imagine the UK doesn't have laws to prevent anonymous SIM card purchases, because of terrorism fears. Some duckduckgo-ing suggests it's possible, e.g. someone wrote just go to Tesco to get one and there are no ID checks (but this was written 6 years ago). In any case, just like teenagers buying booze, it's probably not that hard to pay someone off the street to buy one for you.

No ID is required to buy a pay as you go SIM card in the UK. Just walk into any supermarket or pretty much any corner shop and they will sell you a Sim for a quid at most. (You can also get them for free from the networks directly on their websites, but now they know the address the sim was sent too)

Top up credit is the same, ask the counter staff for £x on network Y and once you have paid they will give you a printed receipt with a code on it for your desired amount.

It’s not really seen as a “national security issue” because most people don’t practice perfect opsec and leave enough details and fingerprints behind.

And an ID check ain’t going to prevent anyone from getting hold of a sim via other means (like you said, pay someone on the street as just 1 example)

Now, try and access porn on that SIM card? Well hold on there, now we need to know who you are!!! (Though you can often blag your way around this via social engineering the CS agent on the phone. Or just bypass the block by using a VPN/Change DNS settings.)

Same for the phones themselves.

Re: A low budget consumer hardware espionage implant (2018)

#28

Post by lupusreal »

pbmonster wrote: post #15
GordonS wrote: post #11

Is there some kind of device that can detect bugs like this? (I'm thinking of the "bug sweepers" I've seen in films)

The article covers that under the section "detection". TL;DR: You can easily detect it while it communicates via GSM, and the device is also shielded quite badly, resulting in lots of easily detectable RF interference while it works. All you need is a cheap RF detector. Having access to a full spectrum analyzer or a SDR will make this even easier. All this gets much harder while the thing lies dormant, waiting for no…

> So the "quick bug sweeps" you see in the movies are more difficult

Isn't that what nonlinear junction detectors are for?

Re: A low budget consumer hardware espionage implant (2018)

#29

Post by fullspectrumdev »

netsharc wrote: post #21
pmx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't someone using this sort of thing also buy a cheap burner phone and throw-away sim card? They're easy to buy with cash and you don't need to register them or anything to use them. Supermarkets in the UK even sell sims with credit already loaded onto them.

I can't imagine the UK doesn't have laws to prevent anonymous SIM card purchases, because of terrorism fears. Some duckduckgo-ing suggests it's possible, e.g. someone wrote just go to Tesco to get one and there are no ID checks (but this was written 6 years ago). In any case, just like teenagers buying booze, it's probably not that hard to pay someone off the street to buy one for you.

You can literally go into almost any corner shop in the UK and buy a SIM with no ID and cash.

I do this regularly.

Re: A low budget consumer hardware espionage implant (2018)

#30

Post by jbosh »

airbreather wrote: post #20

An even easier one would be a modified keyboard. Anyone could fit an esp32 into a keyboard, swap it out, leave it lying around, sniff keystrokes, access with Bluetooth or WiFi, could have it only have the radio on for certain windows in time etc.

Hard part there is getting the wear and tear from oils in your hand to look identical.

Although maybe most people don't pay attention to that.

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