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Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

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Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#291
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F-Droid uses a package maintainer-esque process where the maintainers of F-Droid can intervene and prevent an update to an app from reaching users if it's deemed to be malicious or to add anti-features. It's of particularly high need on mobile since popular apps, even those who were originally FOSS, are sold to scummy publishers who fill it with ads and subscription schemes (oft called anti-features, since removing t…

> where the maintainers of F-Droid can intervene and prevent an update to an app from reaching users if it's deemed to be malicious That sounds like a feature you want when using FOSS. Imagine distros wouldn't have been able to intervene quickly and malicious xz would be still deployed through their channels just because the authors want to.

Oh yeah, it's an absolutely wonderful feature. F-Droid is pretty much the main app store I'd recommend to get "the basics" from if you're ever in the unfortunate position of having to manage the mobile devices of family members. Having a maintainer "on the lookout" gives so much peace of mind. Not suddenly having the gallery app turn into a data collection machine and baiting less tech-savvy people into vaguely defined subscriptions is a value that's too good not to pass up on.

FOSS isn't really the important part for me there; it's nice, but the real value is that F-Droid is pretty much the only app store that has some reckoning on how the relationship between mobile devs and mobile customers should be far more adversarial than on any other platform due to the poor track record of mobile devs and empowers users to be able to deal with that in a way that restores some degrees of trust.

It's a fucking shame there's not an equivalent on iOS where you can just say "yeah, what you find here can be trusted" and then not have that gets polluted a year down the line. Apple used to somewhat police the App Store back in the early 2010s for similar peace of mind, but that's not the case anymore.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#292
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you think that AES-256 that MTProto uses[1] is some wonky algorithm... [1] https://core.telegram.org/mtproto

Going from "AES is safe" to "Any protocol that uses AES is safe" is the kind of leap that will ban you from any cryptography work

GP was talking encryption, not protocol. Randomly changing topics will get you banned from any crypto work too.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#293
post #51

Telegram is full of scammers. Something something bricks and a glass house.

I've started getting a lot of spam scam messages on Signal as well lately. What's going on with these platforms?

Personally I've never received a scam or spam message on Signal.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#294
post #75

Another thing that wasn't pointed out: Du Rove said "Signal messages have been exploited against them in US courts or media." This would be the same case for Telegram as well, if someone has your phone. I believe that Signal can have a lock on the client, and the database is encrypted. The other part that Du Rove conveniently left out: Signal went against the US courts and won [0]. When subpoenaed to give all user in…

Telegram has moved to Dubai long ago so no idea where you get the idea that FSB can strong-arm them from.

Durov travels freely to and from Russia and several of their employees are still based in Russia. So yeah, the FSB have leverage if they need to use it.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram iirc moved it's lead developers to Dubai specifically because the FSB was demanding info from them, so you could argue that's an unfounded concern. The bigger problem with Telegram is that it by default has insecure encryption settings (as opposed to Signal, where encrypted is the default, you need to manually activate it with Telegram + I think it's not possible to enable for all chats and clients) and to m…

> because the FSB was demanding info from them But they gave the FSB info they asked for -- the vk.com website (facebook clone, at that time it had way more massive amounts of user data than telegram). They could have deleted the data, but no, they handed it over to FSB.

I will point out, in their defence, they handed it over to an organisation that has a habit of assisting people in learning how to fly from windows. This isn't to say Telegram is secure but that it's unlikely they "could have deleted the data" and remained alive.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You do make bear service here." I'm not sure what this means.

This is a literal translation of a Russian idiomatic expression.

Slavic, not Russian.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#297
I've always at least strongly suspected that Telegram is a FSB honeypot.

It's insecure by default so I guess it could be an everyone-honeypot. I'll keep using Signal for my secure messaging thank you very much. Honestly I trust Apple iMessage encryption more than Telegram.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#298
Let me set a few things straight: Telegram is for the most part tiktok for people that don't mind putting some effort into reading on a few odd occasions. Saying that I have a lot of Ukrainian friends would be an understatement and the are the only reason I have telegram-all of them favor it, which, all things considered, is a grave mistake. In practice, telegram is far more closely related to tiktok and twitter than a messaging app and by extension it is heavily used to spread misinformation: telegram channels are ultimately under the complete control of their admins and they have the ultimate authority with no way of doing anything about it. Twitter was forced to put some effort into it through community notes but that hasn't even made a dent: it literally takes two google searches to find tens of thousands of bot accounts spreading misinformation. In that regard, telegram is much worse since it's an infinite source of cognitive dissonance: People are willfully joining echo chambers, which are openly advertised as such.

I am really glad that telegram is nowhere nearly as big in western countries compared to eastern Europe. It pains me to say this but, but even till this day, us eastern Europeans are way more susceptible to propaganda than the western world, although, for a million and one reasons that seems to have a huge effect on the western world as well. In that sense, telegram is an active contributor.

10/10 times I'll sit firmly behind Signal, despite the many shortcomings: there is no developer integration, if you want to create a signal account for your own personal bots or whatever, you can but only through a hacky repo that's on github.

Yes, the people behind telegram know all this very well and they don't like the fact that people who are aware of it as well are favoring signal infinitely more than telegram.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The meaning of "bear's service" originally comes from a fable about a man and a bear. The bear wanted to help the man by killing a gnat which sat on his forehead. As a result both the gnat and the man died. Basically, by being proactive you do more damage as if you didn't do anything.

Thanks for the explanation. I'll try to be less proactive, I guess...

Proactive is fine, if you know what is the overall impact.

There's another: proactive idiot is worse than the class enemy[1].

[1] "Class enemy" or "třídní nepřítel" (cz) might be an unknown term in itself - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_the_people#Soviet_Uni...

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