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Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

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Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#251

Post by pdimitar »

ixwt wrote: post #228
pdimitar wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram has moved to Dubai long ago so no idea where you get the idea that FSB can strong-arm them from.

As I stated in a sister comment, Dubai is marginally better, but not significantly better. If it's the same original developers, they could be squeezed through their family.

Same goes for Signal devs, or any devs really. You're only stating the obvious: humans can be forced and coerced given enough motivation and resources.

Singling out Telegram, or Signal, or any other service's devs is not advancing any argument forward.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#252

Post by viraptor »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #207
Intermernet wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You do make bear service here." I'm not sure what this means.

This is a literal translation of a Russian idiomatic expression.

Or a Polish one. (I guess the expression will be popular across Eastern Europe)

It's funny to see the basic cultural stuff float to the surface in comments like that. Like when there was a large number of "American" accounts some time ago on Twitter responding to financial news, but putting USD after the numbers... (To be clear, I'm not suggesting anything specific about the author here, just that sometimes you see enough opinions about something with the origin "leaking" through the side channel and wonder how organic it is)

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#253

Post by sbarre »

pdimitar wrote: post #188
ixwt wrote: post #75

Another thing that wasn't pointed out: Du Rove said "Signal messages have been exploited against them in US courts or media." This would be the same case for Telegram as well, if someone has your phone. I believe that Signal can have a lock on the client, and the database is encrypted. The other part that Du Rove conveniently left out: Signal went against the US courts and won [0]. When subpoenaed to give all user in…

Telegram has moved to Dubai long ago so no idea where you get the idea that FSB can strong-arm them from.

Ah yes, Dubai the bastion of integrity, equality and human rights.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#254

Post by YPPH »

gkbrk wrote: post #205
hiq wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your points have little to do with security (which is the main angle of Matthew Green's thread), especially because of reproducibility. Even then > You need to download it from the Google Play Store. Factually incorrect, just go to https://signal.org/android/apk/ (and the apk will then update itself) or build it yourself. > pushed the update to everyone but no one could inspect the source code. That was for the serve…

> Factually incorrect, just go to https://signal.org/android/apk/ (and the apk will then update itself) or build it yourself. That page tells me that the safest way is to have a Google account, with Google Play Services installed on my phone, and to download it from the Google Play Store. It then gives me an APK link after saying "Danger zone" and "most users should not do this". If the app developer tells me it's da…

You're moving the goalposts now. Your comment was factually incorrect on a very basic point, own it and move on.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#255

Post by fidotron »

rakoo wrote: post #231
fidotron wrote: post #23

[flagged]

What revelations ?

That the chair of the board believes truth is an inconvenience that stands in the way of getting things done, among other things.

Edit to add: The fact my post got flagged and not merely downvoted is because it hits the nerve way too strongly.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#256

Post by beretguy »

pdimitar wrote: post #188
ixwt wrote: post #75

Another thing that wasn't pointed out: Du Rove said "Signal messages have been exploited against them in US courts or media." This would be the same case for Telegram as well, if someone has your phone. I believe that Signal can have a lock on the client, and the database is encrypted. The other part that Du Rove conveniently left out: Signal went against the US courts and won [0]. When subpoenaed to give all user in…

Telegram has moved to Dubai long ago so no idea where you get the idea that FSB can strong-arm them from.

Did you hear about a russian pilot who defected to Ukraine and then was killed in Spain?

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/20/world/europe/russian-pilo...

If russia wants to find and kill you they will.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#257

Post by skybrian »

gkbrk wrote: post #205
hiq wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your points have little to do with security (which is the main angle of Matthew Green's thread), especially because of reproducibility. Even then > You need to download it from the Google Play Store. Factually incorrect, just go to https://signal.org/android/apk/ (and the apk will then update itself) or build it yourself. > pushed the update to everyone but no one could inspect the source code. That was for the serve…

> Factually incorrect, just go to https://signal.org/android/apk/ (and the apk will then update itself) or build it yourself. That page tells me that the safest way is to have a Google account, with Google Play Services installed on my phone, and to download it from the Google Play Store. It then gives me an APK link after saying "Danger zone" and "most users should not do this". If the app developer tells me it's da…

Do you disagree? The main issue I see with sideloads is that you don’t get automatic updates. I’d do that for an app I built myself, but not if the app is in the Play Store.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#258

Post by lynndotpy »

kome wrote: post #199
cryptoboy2283 wrote: post #173

So, who has actually launched "a pretty intense" campaign here? https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/17883860908411619... https://twitter.com/evacide/status/1788040276331884593 https://twitter.com/naomibrockwell/status/178863495226900939... https://twitter.com/paulmillr/status/1788563576455610552 (I'm pretty sure the list goes on)

this is honestly quite surprising... why are they so adamant? we know telegram is not super safe, but at least is not facebook.

Facebook actually has had optional E2EE with the Signal protocol since at least 2016 (in my experience), as "secret chats". This puts it on a better security standing than Telegram.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#259

Post by znpy »

noirscape wrote: post #126
ixwt wrote: post #75

Another thing that wasn't pointed out: Du Rove said "Signal messages have been exploited against them in US courts or media." This would be the same case for Telegram as well, if someone has your phone. I believe that Signal can have a lock on the client, and the database is encrypted. The other part that Du Rove conveniently left out: Signal went against the US courts and won [0]. When subpoenaed to give all user in…

Telegram iirc moved it's lead developers to Dubai specifically because the FSB was demanding info from them, so you could argue that's an unfounded concern. The bigger problem with Telegram is that it by default has insecure encryption settings (as opposed to Signal, where encrypted is the default, you need to manually activate it with Telegram + I think it's not possible to enable for all chats and clients) and to m…

> I'd personally argue that's a security dark pattern - make privacy a big selling point, but then don't activate the security by default

I think it's a great approach instead: the secure, end to end encryption is there and it's ready to be used.

You can easily activated it but you aren't burdened by it for 99% of the time when e2e encryption is not needed.

Re: Telegram has launched a pretty intense campaign to malign Signal as insecure

#260

Post by ixwt »

seventyone wrote: post #232
ixwt wrote: post #75

Another thing that wasn't pointed out: Du Rove said "Signal messages have been exploited against them in US courts or media." This would be the same case for Telegram as well, if someone has your phone. I believe that Signal can have a lock on the client, and the database is encrypted. The other part that Du Rove conveniently left out: Signal went against the US courts and won [0]. When subpoenaed to give all user in…

"Winning" would mean not having to comply with the subpoena...

The winning in this case was they had to fight to be allowed to release what they provided.

As nice as it would be to not have to provide that information, Signal proved that the only information they have to give is largely useless to law enforcement.

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